{"id":2189,"date":"2008-07-13T01:07:17","date_gmt":"2008-07-12T17:07:17","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/tamil-schools\/2008\/07\/13\/interview-with-samy-vellu-on-tamil-schools\/"},"modified":"2008-07-13T01:07:32","modified_gmt":"2008-07-12T17:07:32","slug":"interview-with-samy-vellu-on-tamil-schools","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/tamil-schools\/2008\/07\/13\/interview-with-samy-vellu-on-tamil-schools\/","title":{"rendered":"Interview with Samy Vellu on Tamil schools"},"content":{"rendered":"
When I read through the interview by Malaysiakini<\/a>, I had a feeling that it was a cat and mouse game between the interviewers and Samy Vellu. They tried to put the blame on him and the government for the condition of Tamil schools, while Samy tries to deflect the accusations. The interviewers were quite prepared and asked some interesting questions. Samy cannot tell that its due to political landscape, so he had to twist and turn the statements, giving general, vague, cynical and even comical statements. One must try to understand the hidden information that is being transmitted.<\/p>\n

The interview focuses on the question: Who’s is responsible for Tamil schools. I added my comments in the interview itself:
<\/a><\/p>\n

Tamil schools, like the Chinese schools, are often seen to be sidelined by the government, though they are said to be an integral part of the national education system.<\/p>\n

Former education minister Musa Mohamad once stated in 2000 that Tamil schools should be regarded as ‘the responsibility of the community’ although the Constitution provides that “there shall be no discrimination against any citizen\u2026 in providing out of the funds of a public authority financial aid for the maintenance or education of pupils or students in any educational institution (\u2026)”<\/p>\n

In 1957, there were approximately 888 Tamil schools which were established in rubber estates predominantly resided by workers of South Indian origin.<\/p>\n

Today the number has been reduced to 523 mainly for the purposes of development. <\/p>\n

During a 90-minute exclusive interview with Malaysiakini, MIC president S Samy Vellu argued that since gaining independence from the colonial rulers, his party has persistently struggled to maintain and improve the schools.<\/p>\n

Q: You have been going around collecting money from the public to put up buildings for Tamil schools. Why is the government not doing enough to upgrade Tamil schools to the level of national schools?<\/b><\/p>\n

According to the older Act, there are two types of schools. One is fully-aided Tamil school and the other, partially-aided Tamil school. The rule at that time was that for partially-aided Tamil schools, the government would pay the salary of the teachers and provide the necessary facilities but parents and the public would have to contribute to put up the school building.
MP: Is there a newer Act? <\/i><\/font><\/p>\n

But I have been working on the government’s mind for the last 29 years saying that this requirement cannot be fulfilled and cannot be done.<\/p>\n

I explained (to the government) then, that in an estate, there are only workers and they cannot afford to build it\u2026 so if they are to have a school, that school has to be built by the government otherwise there will not be any school and the children will receive no education.<\/p>\n

From the time I became a minister in 1979, I have been fighting on this case. Gradually only in 1983 we started building the first batch of schools with full government support. Former prime minister Dr Mahathir Mohamad initially approved RM5.6 million to build the first batch of 12 partially-aided schools.<\/p>\n

Having succeeded that in 1985, we (MIC) went for another claim of RM11 million and the sum was approved for the construction of 19 more partially-aided schools. When this was completed, there were many other allocations that we have sought from time to time for the schools. Funding was always made available but the amount of money sometimes was not sufficient.<\/p>\n

Sometimes we have more money and we built more schools, and when we did not have money we built fewer schools.<\/p>\n

Building Tamil schools is an ongoing matter which I have been continuously following but the problem is we didn’t do much publicity.<\/p>\n

We carried on doing the work because to us the completion of the school and the provision of the required infrastructure and amenities for the children to make them study was the most important thing.<\/p>\n

MP: That means, when schools were closed down (from 888) to existing 523, there were no provision to relocate or rebuilt the schools until 1983. Means all this while the community was cheated or marginalised?<\/font><\/i> This is what I understand. Hope someone can clarify. Secondly, the number of schools decreased at much faster rate than the number of schools being built. Why were the schools closed down?<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: The question again is – why do you and other individuals have to go around collecting money for putting up Tamil school buildings?<\/b><\/p>\n

That happened in the early 1980s because even if the school building is not enough to accommodate the growing number of students, no one would go forward to demand for more facilities or more money. It’s a chicken-and-egg matter.

MP: And its still happening in the year 2008!<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Providing education to the children without any discrimination is the constitutional responsibility of the Education Ministry. But you have been going around begging for money to put up Tamil schools for the children of the Indian community. Why do you have to do that?<\/b><\/p>\n

You see, the education minister is not going to go from school to school to check the conditions.

MP: See next question below. Or perhaps the person is not fit to be a minister?<\/i><\/font><\/p>\n

Q: That’s why they have an education department, right?<\/b><\/p>\n

No, many of the 72 Tamil schools that I’ve built are because of the most effective headmasters. They come and ask for help.<\/p>\n

MP: Hmm…that means indeed the education minister and ministry has been useless all those while. Is that what Samy trying to say? The schools are rebuilt due to effort of Samy (MIC) and headmasters.<\/i><\/font> <\/p>\n

Q: Does not that mean that Tamil schools have been built by the community and not by the Education Ministry?<\/b><\/p>\n

As I told you earlier, partially-aided schools were something like the duty of parents but we (MIC) have made it to be the duty of the government.

MP: Become duty of government after 1983 that is. That’s why many schools were closed but not rebuilt .<\/font><\/i> <\/p>\n

Q: You say you have made changes, i.e. making the government to build the Tamil schools. But it still remains a requirement that you have to get the land. Is this not a fact?<\/b><\/p>\n

No. We surrender the land to the government to build the school. Let me ask you something. For example in Taman Tun Sambathan, there are 900 families and more than 400 children go to Gandhi High School where they have to walk a far distance and they cross a heavy-traffic road.<\/p>\n

So this people want a school near their home and the land is available. So that is where we should build the school. <\/p>\n

You can’t say we’ll wait for the government to look for the land because they will definitely look for one further away. But when we surrender the land and once the government agrees to build a school, the government will buy over the land.<\/p>\n

MP: This is confusing. How to surrender a land that you don’t own? So the community must buy a land, if they don’t have one, and then surrender it to the government. Is that what Samy is trying to say? Why does the government have to look for land further away? Surely they’ll look for one which is convenient for the citizen right? Unless purposely not interested to help the citizens.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Is not also a fact that the land you provide must be in an area that is most convenient to the students?<\/b><\/p>\n

Yes. But what if there is no place available nearby and there is no more land available in that area.

MP: Interesting. How can there are places were people are living, but no place allocated for schools? If estates, surely use a bit of the estate land. If relocating whole communities, surely can allocate place in new area.<\/i><\/font><\/p>\n

Q: The ministry has always argued that partially-aided schools cannot be converted to fully-aided schools because they are on private lands. You are aware that there is a Land Acquisition Act which empowers the state authority to acquire any land for any purpose. Why not the government acquire land for the purpose of building Tamil schools?<\/b><\/p>\n

When there are 1,500 acres (607 hectares) of estate and the school is sitting on a quarter of the land and when you want to subdivide that piece of land that means that the whole estate has to be subdivided.<\/p>\n

What will happen is the estate owners will have to pay new rates for the subdivisions, so definitely the estates won’t agree to pay extra. So the government can’t take over the land.

MP: I’m not sure about this. Any legal experts can comment? Why not get the estate owners to just donate it. All this paperwork and bureaucracy can be worked out. Anyway, let the legal people clarify.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Why are they asking you to get the land?<\/b><\/p>\n

No! Tell me how many schools were built by donation? We surrender the land to the government. Land is the responsibility of the government.

MP: I don’t understand the question nor the answer. Sounds like the interviewers are asking why Samy (or MIC\/community?) is being asked to prepare the land, but Samy replies that land is responsibility of the government. Very confusing.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: In Klang, a school was built and you said you built it without spending a single cent. So where did the money come from? You also said about a Tamil school that you built in Batang Melaka. You said the school was a structure of half-cement and half-wood. Now, it was rebuilt and it was by a Malay man who, despite being a Malay, had built not one, not two, but three Tamil schools.<\/b><\/p>\n

The contractor built it.<\/p>\n

MP: Hmmm..when Samy says he builts schools, definitely its not to be taken literally! He just means that he helped to get the schools builts.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: He was a contractor. So it was not the government, but it was the contractor who paid for it?<\/b><\/p>\n

We did it without spending the people’s money, what’s so bad about that\u2026<\/p>\n

MP: Agreed, if someone willing to sponsor schools buildings, it should be welcomed. Nothing bad, but very noble. Obviously the guy being a contractor and the Minister is in charge of Work Ministry should not be bought into the picture. Anyone should be welcomed to help build schools, as long as it is without force.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Nothing bad, but the question is why is the government not taking the responsibility to do it?<\/b><\/p>\n

Let us all decide now. We don’t touch the Tamil schools and let’s wait for the government to build them.<\/p>\n

MP: Now, this is a cynical answer for Samy. He knows that the “wait” will be very very long, in fact it may signal the end of MIC itself. He is clearly telling that the government has not being taking responsibility (at least that’s what I understand). <\/i><\/font><\/p>\n

Q: Should we not pressure the government to build the Tamil schools? Why do you have to do it?<\/b><\/p>\n

It is not the question of making me do it. I have a social responsibility to my community and party. It is part of my party’s decision that we must help and build the Tamil schools.<\/p>\n

As the president of the party, it is my duty to build the schools. I can also write (like you) that this is no good and that is no good but what is gained by saying something is no good?

MP: Again, we can see Samy is telling that there’s no choice but for MIC to put in effort to built the schools. Leaving it to the education ministry will see the end of Tamil schools. He is saying no point complaining. The community have to take its own effort. May I suggest that donations to Tamil (and Chinese) schools to be tax exempted? This can help spur more donations.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Leadership quality is something that you cannot find in everybody at the same level. You have a very special character – terrorising others to get things done. Would you say your successor would possess the same quality?<\/b><\/p>\n

No, but it is a matter of people understanding the necessity and responsibility that something has to be done. I’m not in government now but I keep on working because I feel I have much more responsibility to help the people now.<\/p>\n

MP: Terrorising??? <\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: And we appreciate that. But will you say that your successor will be able to do the same thing?<\/b><\/p>\n

That I cannot say. Every human being has different capabilities<\/p>\n

Q: That is why the public is worried that since there is no government commitment to build Tamil schools the way they are doing it for national schools. We are depending on commitments by individuals.<\/b><\/p>\n

Originally it was like that but we have told the government that they must pay up and they have started to pay. For example in Selangor, every school is built on government land that has been obtained.

MP: Its distressing to see that now only such efforts is being started. And for how long? If the next MIC president is a weakling, things will be back to status quo. Since few states have fallen into Pakatan hands, there should be speedier land allocation for Tamil schools located on private land. This will be one of the indicators for the community to judge Pakatan states in the next election.<\/i><\/font><\/p>\n

Q: Why should not there be a declared government policy to build Tamil schools in areas where the schools are needed?<\/b><\/p>\n

They have formulated the policy and it has been discussed. It will be further discussed to decide what the ways of doing it, what the requirements and what will be the best solutions. That’s the way things work.<\/p>\n

MP: Vague statements. When was the policy formulated? When will it be discussed further? We can see that it takes time. Problem is that, the issue had been overlooked for so many decades until people don’t want to hear excuses. They want solutions that say “now”, not “later”, “will be”, “in the future”, “soon”.<\/i><\/font><\/p>\n

Q: You say things are being worked out. When do you think the government will convert all the Tamil and Chinese Schools to fully-aided schools?<\/b><\/p>\n

The government has already taken a decision. In a special committee set up by the prime minister and chaired by the deputy prime minister, it has been decided that the schools will be made into fully-aided schools soon. And the proposal was accepted in the cabinet.<\/p>\n

MP: Note that the question ask about conversion of status. But the new cabinet committee (set up weeks ago) talks about converting and merging schools. That’s two different things. There are many places where the community lacks schools. Schools with less students can be relocated, while the students moved to another nearby school. For example, along Jalan Sungai Buloh-Kuala Selangor, one can find 3 to 4 schools. One bigger school can built here to cater for the three school’s students, while another two schools can be relocated to bigger townships with substantial indian population – Klang, Kapar, Puchong, etc.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: When exactly will this be achieved?<\/b><\/p>\n

From now onwards as the need arises, it will be done<\/p>\n

MP: As the need arises???<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: But the need is already there for 372 Tamil schools.<\/b><\/p>\n

These schools are small schools with less than 50 students per school. It deserves a different attention.<\/p>\n

The Education Ministry said these are schools that need to be equipped with better facilities, so they want to know if the schools will commit if the ministry sets up a group school and provide them with buses and hostels.<\/p>\n

The government has gone to the extent of offering buses and hostels.

MP: I reiterate that if schools are “grouped” together, new schools must be built in other suitable locations. It is not acceptable to see the number of school dwindle. On the other hand, looking at the demand from parents, number of schools should be increased.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Under the Ninth Malaysia Plan the development allocation for per student per month according to school is:<\/b><\/p>\n

* National school RM33.30 per student<\/b><\/p>\n

* Tamil school RM10.55 per student <\/b><\/p>\n

* Chinese school RM4.50 per student<\/b><\/p>\n

Way back in 1949, during the British days, the allocation was:<\/b><\/p>\n

* English school $188.88 per student <\/b><\/p>\n

* Malay school $66.84 per student<\/b><\/p>\n

* Tamil school $55.84 per student<\/b><\/p>\n

* Chinese school $8.72 per student<\/b><\/p>\n

Is there discrimination now?<\/b><\/p>\n

The reason the allocations are made as such is because the schools are very small and not fitted with all the facilities like laboratories and so forth.<\/p>\n

The moment all these facilities are in the school instantly the government will raise the allocation per student.<\/p>\n

MP: Chicken and egg story again.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: How will they obtain all the facilities when there is inadequate allocation?<\/b><\/p>\n

The allocation is not given – that is just how much the government spends on a child. The government spends more money on a child who attends a school that is fully facilitated.<\/p>\n

If the school doesn’t have more than two classrooms then the government will spend much less on a student who goes to that school.<\/p>\n

MP: It makes economic sense to spend less on smaller schools since the expenses are less. However, we are talking about developing human capital and future generation. The solutions being touted now are something that should be done ages ago. All the problems we see now is the effect of years on inaction and wrong focus. The symptoms were there, but no one chose to see it. The government had to balance education allocation to cover all schools. Due to limited funds, Tamil schools became one of the victims.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: But the allocation is not given on the basis of the kind of school a child attends i.e. a fully equipped school or less equipped school. It is designated according to language stream schools.<\/b><\/p>\n

I won’t call this discrimination because there may be many technical reasons to it. If there is discrimination then the Chinese must fight for it.<\/p>\n

Every year, the estimation is done with various requirements. If I ask for reasons, the ministry will come up with reasons.<\/p>\n

They won’t tell me just because we are Indians, they won’t give us fair allocations. This is not that type of government. If it was, it won’t be this developed today<\/p>\n

The education minister has always obligated to do the right thing; he did not go around telling people not to give to Indians.<\/p>\n

MP: Samy is trapped here. He says it without saying it. He can’t call a spade spade for the obvious reasons. Then, he argues that the Chinese don’t complaint, so it should be OK. How can the community compare with Chinese community and its education support setup. If anything, MIC should have been encouraging creation of education groups and foundations for funding Tamil schools. The chinese community have their Dong Jiongs who will fight tooth and nail for the education.<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Is not this the reason Tamil schools are in such a mess?<\/b><\/p>\n

Tamil schools are not in a mess as it has been said by people who simply say and don’t do anything for the school!<\/p>\n

We spend millions every year to print books, promote the education and we see the students get happy!<\/p>\n

You think it comes just like that! That is the initiatives and the people who don’t put the initiative are the people who sit at home and question others! That doesn’t happen!

MP: Who is the “we” who spend millions? If its the community, then its goes back to the original question – why is the government not doing it? As far as I can see, many people are helping to improve schools conditions. Problem is that we don’t have big developer companies that can donate land and build schools for free. Very few were done this way, and only recently. On the other hand, if the “we” is the government, then why don’t we see improvement in schools facilities?<\/font><\/i><\/p>\n

Q: Is this discrimination carried out in pursuit of the ‘ultimate objective’ – to get rid of all Tamil schools?<\/b><\/p>\n

I don’t think Tamil schools or Indian fellows can be finished off by anybody.<\/p>\n

MP: I think that will be the ultimate objective. By merging, we get less schools. After 50 years, we get one policy to improve schools. With less schools and limited capacities, another round of merging in 20 years time will see lesser schools. Repeat this every twenty years and you’ll get a handful of schools by next century. Technically its not closing down schools, but “merging”. In order to avoid this potential scenario, the number of schools must remain at the current number or increased accordingly. However its a policy (rule?) to not build new vernacular schools. Remember, building new is not the same as rebuilding or relocation.<\/font><\/i><\/div>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

When I read through the interview by Malaysiakini, I had a feeling that it was a cat and mouse game between the interviewers and Samy Vellu. They tried to put the blame on him and the government for the condition of Tamil schools, while Samy tries to deflect the accusations. The interviewers were quite prepared […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[11,7],"tags":[112,19,84,103,24,225,20],"class_list":["post-2189","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-indian","category-tamil-schools","tag-discrimination","tag-education","tag-funds","tag-marginalisation","tag-mic","tag-politicians","tag-tamil-school"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2189","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2189"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2189\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2189"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2189"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2189"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}