{"id":4473,"date":"2009-04-23T16:39:02","date_gmt":"2009-04-23T08:39:02","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/?p=4473"},"modified":"2009-04-23T16:39:02","modified_gmt":"2009-04-23T08:39:02","slug":"children-to-remain-in-original-religion-says-cabinet","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/borninmalaysia\/2009\/04\/23\/children-to-remain-in-original-religion-says-cabinet\/","title":{"rendered":"children to remain in original religion says cabinet"},"content":{"rendered":"

A sort of miracle happened today! The cabinet decreed that children in a case where one parent converts are to remain in the original religion<\/a>. However, the decree is meaningless until the laws are changed. How long for that? Months maybe. So, in future, we hope to avoid more crime as done by Subashini and Indira’s husbands. But, at the moment, the fate of Indira’s childre in still in limbo. Until the Sultan’s consent to change in the state laws, and parliament passes the changes in constitution and laws, we have to keep our fingers crossed.<\/p>\n

Further to that, the cabinet also decided that civil marriages must be resolved in civil courts and the convert can’t use the excuse that he converted to escape from his obligations.<\/p>\n

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The Cabinet has decided that children of parents where one of them opts to convert must be raised in the common religion at the time of marriage.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n

Minister in the Prime Minister\u2019s Department Datuk Seri Nazri said it was decided in the Cabinet meeting on Wednesday that a spouse who has converted into Islam would also have to fulfil his or her marriage responsibilities according to civil marriage laws.<\/p>\n

\u201cReligion should not be used as a tool to escape marriage responsibilities<\/strong><\/span>. Conversion is not a grounds for the automatic dissolution of a marriage<\/strong><\/span>,\u201d he said at a press conference at Parliament building Thursday.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe children should be brought up in the common religion. For the spouse who intends to convert into Islam, he or she would also have to come clean,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n

Nazri said religious conversion must come with the innocent party being protected from being victimised, as well as protection being affored to the new religion of the converted person.<\/p>\n

\u201cCivil marriages have to be resolved according to civil laws<\/strong><\/span>. The conversion takes effect on the day of conversion and is not restropective.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe convert would have to fulfil his or her marriage responsibilities according to civil laws prior to the conversion,\u201d he added.<\/p>\n

Nazri also said the Cabinet has instructed the Attorney-General to look at all relevant laws which needed to be amended in line with what has been decided on civil marriage laws and others.<\/p>\n

For Islamic enactment, he said the matters have to be brought up with the respective Sultans as they are the heads of religion in their respective states.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

More details from NST<\/a>:<\/p>\n

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\u201cThe Cabinet feels there is an implied and constructive contract between husband and wife that their children should be brought up in accordance to the common religion at the time of marriage or whatever religion they had agreed their offspring should practice<\/strong><\/span>,\u201d he said.<\/p>\n

<\/p>\n

Nazri said in the case of Indira Ghandhi, both she and her husband were Hindus at time of marriage, so it was implied that their children be brought up as Hindus<\/strong><\/span>.<\/p>\n

Nazri said Minister in the Prime Minister\u2019s Department Maj-Gen (R) Datuk Jamil Khir Baharom, who is in charge of Islamic affairs, has been instructed to meet with Muhammd Ridzuan to settle the case amicably<\/strong><\/span>.<\/p>\n

\u201cHe will also meet with the relevant authorities (like the Perak Islamic Affairs Department) to settle this in accordance with the cabinet decision<\/strong><\/span>.\u201d<\/p>\n

Nazri said the Cabinet was of the view that conversion came with responsibility and cited two reasons – the first is to protect the innocent party from being treated unfairly and victimised and the second is to protect the new religion of the person who converted to the new faith or in this case, Islam.<\/p>\n

Religion should not be used as a tool to allow a party to a marriage to run away from his or her responsibility as husband or wife, he said.<\/p>\n

\u201cI do not think any religion would want it to be used as a convenient tool to run away from responsibility<\/strong><\/span>,” he said.<\/p>\n

Nazri said the question of the children\u2019s custody in Indira Ghandi\u2019s case does not arise at this juncture as the marriage has yet to be dissolved<\/strong><\/span>.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe marriage followed civil laws and the Cabinet stand by the principle that a civil marriage should be dissolved in a manner provided for by civil courts.<\/p>\n

\u201cConversion to another religion is not a ground for automatic dissolution of a civil marriage.\u201d<\/p>\n

Nazri noted that the couple were separated at the point when Pahtmanathan converted to Islam.<\/p>\n

\u201cThe Cabinet has agreed that the relevant date for application of Islamic laws should be on the date of conversion and it is not retrospective.<\/p>\n

\u201cPast acts should be resolved under the relevant civil laws. Islamic laws apply on the day of his conversion. He must resolve all his problems first and he should come clean as to his responsibilities before he converts to any other religions.<\/p>\n

Nazri said to give effect to its decision, the Cabinet has instructed the Attorney General to look at the relevant laws which need to be amended.<\/p>\n

\u201cCivil marriage laws or any other laws to be amended. If it affect Islamic enactment it will be brought to the Sultan\u2019s attention.\u201d he said.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Thus, the children should remain as Hindus, and the custody depends on the outcome of the divorce case. The unlikely (but possible) outcome will be Hindu children being raised in a Muslim house.<\/p>\n

The ruling also may give a glimmer of hope for Subashini to revoke the conversion of her children by her husband.<\/p>\n

Meanwhile, the Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and Taoism is taking the issue of conversions<\/a> to the Malay rulers, so its a good time to follow up the cabinet’s decision with the rulers, especially the Sultan of Perak so that can speed up the paperwork.<\/p>\n

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Its president, Datuk A. Vaithilingam, said the council made the decision yesterday after meeting to discuss the plight of M. Indira Ghandi, whose estranged husband had converted their children to Islam without her knowledge.<\/p>\n

Vaithilingam said they wanted to raise the problems associated with controversial conversions as religious matters fell within the ambit of the state governments.<\/p>\n

Since the sultans were the heads of Islam in their respective states, Vaithilingam felt they would be able to assist in finding a solution to the problem.<\/p>\n

“We are appealing to the sultans. We will write to them once we have determined how to go about it,” Vaithilingam said yesterday after the council had met Indira Ghandi.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

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Vaithilingam explains more in Malaysiakini<\/a>:<\/p>\n

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Council president A Vaithilingam said the council would be writing to the Keeper of the Rulers’ Seal requesting that the Conference of Malay Rulers intervene in this particular case.<\/p>\n

“The rulers are responsible for the religion of Islam in their respective states and the king is responsible for the country.<\/p>\n

“As we are all their subjects, so we call upon the rulers to see that there is justice and fair play for all of us,” he said.<\/p>\n

The inter-religion affairs council – which held a two-hour meeting this morning with 35-year-old Indira – expressed their disappointment with act of the Syariah Court in Perak which granted custody of her three children to her husband without her knowledge.<\/p>\n

“The children were born to a couple married under civil law, therefore until the civil court has decided on a divorce, if there is one and on alimony and custody, the children cannot be converted,<\/strong><\/span>” said Vaithilingam.<\/p>\n

“The conversion of the children, to us, is illegal as we believe that all those who are below 18 years of age should be allowed to decided on their faith only when they old enough<\/strong><\/span>,” he added.<\/p>\n

…<\/p>\n

Vaithilingam, who met the five ministers yesterday, said they told him that they were sympathetic to Indira’s predicament and gave their assurance that it would be solved soon.<\/p>\n

“But this assurance has yet to materialise […] we don’t want to reconvene again with another man or woman who has become another victim,” said Vaithilingam.<\/p>\n

He reiterated the MCCBCHST was not against Islam but stressed that the conversion process should be more stringent in tandem with the reform of existing family laws.<\/p>\n

“We were promised so many times that there would be reforms to family laws to ensure that such a situation will not reoccur. Yet here we are again […] no attempts have been made to make the changes although there has been a lot of talk of reform,” said Vaithilingam.<\/p>\n

He said grey areas under the law dealing with conversion should have been resolved ever since the controversy following the death of famous mountaineer M Moorthy<\/strong><\/a>, popularly known as ‘Everest Moorthy’, who was buried with Muslim rites despite his family’s claim that he had not converted.<\/p>\n

The council appealed for a quick resolution to the Indira case as the pressure had taken a heavy toll on the young family.<\/p>\n

“Frankly, since the council had been formed in 1983, we have achieved very little,” said Vaithilingam, adding that he hoped that Indira’s youngest child, who is with her father, would be reunited with the mother.<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n

Well,\u00a0 looks like the new Cabinet is trying to do something instead of talking only, unlike the previous ones. If they can successfully ring the changes and ensure that such injustice doesn’t have a chance of occurring again, it will win them valuable points from the aggrieved communities. Do more by looking at all of us as Malaysians, and it will be a better country.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

A sort of miracle happened today! The cabinet decreed that children in a case where one parent converts are to remain in the original religion. However, the decree is meaningless until the laws are changed. How long for that? Months maybe. So, in future, we hope to avoid more crime as done by Subashini and […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[6,11,10],"tags":[92,117,108,42],"class_list":["post-4473","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-borninmalaysia","category-indian","category-religion","tag-conversion","tag-crime","tag-harmony","tag-syariah-law"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4473","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=4473"}],"version-history":[{"count":2,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4473\/revisions"}],"predecessor-version":[{"id":4485,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/4473\/revisions\/4485"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=4473"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=4473"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/poobalan.com\/blog\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=4473"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}