Elangesvaran buried as muslim by body snatchers

July 8th, 2008 by poobalan | View blog reactions Leave a reply »
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The sad news was revealed late yesterday, when the High Court dismissed application by the family to stop the religious authorities from snatching the deceased and burying him. Details are in the hard copy of today’s Star, page N28. Elangesvaran was buried in the Parit Buntar Muslim cemetery last night. What a disgraceful act by these criminals. Just like when they appealed at syariah court instead of facing the family in civil court. Another definition for cowardice.

All this because there’s some proof scribbled on paper that the deceased had converted. These religious hooligans (extremists or terrorist is also suitable here) did not provide proof to the family about the conversion (at least in public). What’s so difficult about that? Where’s the compassion these guys always trumpet about?

Where in the world in MIC, IPF, DAP, PKR, Gerakan, Hindraf, MHS? Our great Indian leader and saviour of the Indian community…where is he hiding?

The family is planning to put up another appeal, which if they win will result in the body being exhumed and buried (cremated) according Hindu rites.

Let this be another warning (yes, we have plenty of such sad cases every few months) to our community. Think carefully before doing anything rash. Talk to family members, friends, or spiritual organizations so that you don’t make the wrong decision. More importantly, make sure that your religious status is correct in your MyKad, Registration Department system and other relevant documents.

If there’s no proof of conversion is forthcoming, I hope those body snatchers rot in hell.

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20 comments

  1. Killer says:

    Wah, you are boiling aren’t you ?

    I am puzzled btw. Perhaps HINDRAF supporters could explain. This family need support but how come HINDRAF is not there to offer support and show solidarity ? Where is the representative of Penang Indians, Prof Rama and Perak’s S.Kula ?

    How come HINDRAF leaders could accompany Bala’s relatives to make police reports and go to parliament to support Anwar but missing when Indians are in need of help ?

    Perhaps HINDRAF has suddenly become multi-racial like Prof Rama ? Or turned to DAP’s Malaysian Malaysia policy ??

    Funny thing is this happened right in the doorstep of Pakatan Rakyat’s states of Perak / Penang. So would Anwar Ibrahim and Lim Guan Eng step in to help ?

    • poobalan says:

      well, are you all smiles then?

      i read that HINDRAF people were at the court house as well to show support for the family. perhaps you can verify with your contacts.

      unfortunately, the same can’t be said of MIC, Gerakan, and PPP. DAP lawyers represented the family – Rayer and Karpal, but that does not mean DAP was there as well. Same goes for PKR. I’ll say equally guilty as the other parties.

      I wouldn’t mind if Prof Ramasamy was not there, but the exco in charge of religion should have been there or send representatives to follow the issue. I think one of the following should be the black sheep:

      – First Deputy Chief Minister Mohammad Fairus Khairuddin (of religious affairs, entrepreneur development and cooperatives, information and social relations)

      – Sungai Puyu assemblyman Phee Boon Poh (health and welfare and caring society portfolios)

      – Berapit assemblywoman Ong Kok Foi (youth and sports and women, family and community development).

      I asked where is everyone (ruling/opposition and NGOs) who claims to champions indians/multiracial ideals. I noticed you left out MIC in your list of questions. Why is that?

      Looks like HINDRAF people were the only ones there to offer solidarity.

      • Killer says:

        Read this link….some good insights about this issue.

        http://shuzheng.wordpress.com/2008/06/25/horror-the-test-the-test/

        • poobalan says:

          lots of choice and complicated wording, not clear on what the person is talking about. The MB have been already ticked off by the Sultan. The Pakatan team can’t overrule monarchy in the state. Even at federal level, if they form a government, they would not touch on monarchy issues in the first term. probably they will try to make changes in the second or third term.

          to answer his question (a). i don’t think Pakatan coalition will last. Two parties are secular, but one is religious in nature. Its just a matter of time before it gives way. The only exception is if PKR can be the glue that links DAP and PAS together, and if no serious religious vs secular issue pops up. The chances of that happening is next to nil as we have religious issues every now and then. as for question (b), it is possible to form a federal government if the parties can reel in their demands and just focus on common ground. but that would like betraying themselves.

          the writer says it should be decided not by constitution, when unfortunately that’s the only. to undo the changes made to the constitution – only the coalition with 2/3 support can do it. if the judiciary is full of people who can’t make correct decisions because of the ambiguities, then let the lawmakers make it easier for the judiciary to make decision. Correct the constitution, streamline the religious processes and affairs. In states like Kedah, Perak and Selangor, Pakatan can propose changes that are fair to all religion, but if the Ruler doesn’t agree, it will be very difficult or even impossible.

  2. nanda says:

    This act is of course wrong but I would just like to share a point of view.

    As a hindu, I was taught and subsequently read in various scriptures that our body is only a vehicle for the soul or Athma.
    Once the soul leaves, the body really has no significance and is therefore cremated. (No burial, headstone, tombn, etc)

    So if we look at this from a more spiritual sense, what these culprits have done has no bearing on the soul of the deceased, right?

    If he truely was muslim…..it’s fine….
    If he truely was hindu….the body doesn’t matter….so it’s still fine…right?

    Just my 2 cents.

    • poobalan says:

      true nanda, as hindus we believe in the journey of the soul. in the spiritual sense the soul is always om its path towards realisation.

      just like muslims believe all souls are muslims since birth, we also believe that all souls originate from brahman and will return to him.

      however, in the sense of justice, rights, responsibility – is it not inhumane to deprive the family their rights to send off their loved ones? the emotional scar on those who are still alive – who will help to heal the wound?

  3. VJ says:

    Nanda , what you said is true in the ‘sixth sense’ point of view which is ‘mey nyanam’ . But do think in the point of view of the deceaced family members . How would they feel .
    Hinduism is great such it promotes the ‘sixth sense’ . In the case of your thought it’s proven . Besides , have we seen anyone other than a hindu whom dare to say ’em mathamum sammatham’ ?

    It’s a hard lesson to those ‘dungu’s whom convert secretly . Well , Hinduism will not find it as offence but we hope people could look at bigger picture as a society impact .

    Heard the DAP lawyers offered help to pursue the case in civil court . Thanks to them . Remember guys , our beloved MIC/MCA/Gerakan/PPP lawyers were not there .

    Killer , religious dept especially for Islam comes under federal jurisdiction , in other words under umno directly. So except umno no one could challenge it .

    • Killer says:

      You are wrong bro. Religion comes under state control. It is one of the few areas that controlled by the state and that’s why we have different procedures and alws for Islam in Malaysia.

  4. Novinthen says:

    This is not the time whether HINDRAF didnt help or MIC didnt help debates.

    One party need to help within the system and the other group need to help from out of the system. If paper work fails show them street work.

    That’s how we should work together.

    Elangesvaran is the issue now . not The Boss ( DSSV ) and The Other Boss ( DSAI )

    We as rakyat need to think how we can get help from both sides and how to take this issue to MIC top guns or Opposition top guns.

    • poobalan says:

      i agree with you. most of the problems surfacing now is due to lack of check and balance, and proper planning. both groups are important – politicians to fight for certain cause, and NGO, civil groups, associations, public who serve to remind politicians from time to time.

      just one question – why do we need to “to take this issue to MIC top guns or Opposition top guns”? are those people idiots or been in Mars all this while? all the time these people talk about “grass root” problems, their background is from “common” people, they fight for “equal rights” etc…all nice sugary words.

      if you remember correctly, there were some noise on creating solutions for these kind of disputed conversions and body snatching. What happened to the noise?

      • Killer says:

        Yo

        Let me give my perspective on this issue.

        It is unfair to accuse the BN component parties (Non-UMNO) of not fighting in this issue. Remember when the non-bumi cabinet ministers sending a memo to the PM on this issue and creating a big issue ?

        From what I heard is that this issue was hotly debated with much emotion. However the problem with AAB’s first term was that the first cabinet was full of Mahatir era dinasours. Another problem is AAB’s style of concensus decision making style. This means he will leave it to the cabinet to come up with a common understanding. But because of this, most of the time no decisions were reached in key issues such as religious conversions.

        I think the anger of non-bumis was communicated to AAB and I think he was well aware. But due to entrenched old mindset, he couldnt do much.

        That’s why if you notice, these days he is more assertive in making decision without waiting for a consensus. This can be seen if you read the cabinet meeting press release. Also do also take note of the change in the minister in charge of Islam. That old dinosaur was a fundamentalist has been replaced with Zahid who is younger and reform minded.

        Also the new minister in charge of law is also a reform minded forward thinker. However, the danger is in the excessive politics. If this idiot Anwar keep pressing AAB, then he might be diverted from pushing through the reforms such as religious conversions. I can tell you that AAB is the right person to push it through with his Islamic credentials. I wouldnt want Najib (if he becomes the PM) to do it during his term as he will be killed politically by PAS.

        • VJ says:

          Killer ,
          in other words you agree that the non-umno parties in BN are merely ‘boneka’ .
          Even you , a BN supporter , agreed with this and also the sloppiness of AAB .
          Let AAB take his sweet time to learn up leadership qualities while Pakatan wrestle federal .
          Fyi , dinosours should be in muzium as fossils . Keep them there .

          Noticed , nowadays you are also learning about local politics . Keep it up !

  5. poobalan says:

    yes, killer is right. their religious affairs comes under each state. efforts are being taken to streamline it, but need to get the sultans and agong approval.

    but the problem with conflict between civil and syariah courts come from interpretation of the constitutions – something that can be solved by the federal government.

  6. Killer says:

    Dear Poobalan

    Me happy ? I am laughing at the Makkal Sakti fanclub actually… saying “Told you so…..”

    I am not sure about the presence of HINDRAF supporters but I certainly didnt see any of their leaders in the mainstream papers demonstrating or giving press conferences that they are so fond of doing. This is one of the reason for their anger before the GE and this is also why they accused MIC of failing to protect Indians’ interest. They also pointed out that this as an example of UMNO’s racism.

    Well, now the ball is in PR’s court. HINDRAF had managed to get Indians in Perak and Penang to kick out MIC and bring in PR. And since religion is state matter, the power to decide is in PR’s hand. As such HINDRAF should able to use its influence.

    But what happened ? Did HINDRAF do anything to help the family or solve the problem ? I see a big FAT ZERO.

    Don’t involve MIC in this as they had been rejected by Indians and they are powerless in Perak and Penang. Also the case is handled by DAP lawyers which would mean MIC won’t be allowed to help.

    I cannot accept that Prof Rama and S.Kula being not there. If they don’t protect the interests of Indians, who will ?

    The bottom line is, by listening to HINDRAF and voting in PR, nothing has been accomplished. In fact even if PR takes over the Federal govt nothing will change, as seen from this issue.

    I believe at the Federal level, some changes are already being made on the issue of conversions. But remember, religion is a state issue. Also Federal laws have to through the parliament. I very much doubtful if PAS will support the changes proposed.

    • VJ says:

      when hindraf takes up something serious you guys say it’s an extremist ….. when not you guys laugh ….. you seem to be a joke lar bro ….
      You can even show the law book claiming it to be a State issue . But it will never work that way (except non-islamic matters) . It will still go back to umno which rules the federal .
      Are you saying that Makkal rejected MIC’s lead in states 30years ago ? So what happened in past years prior March8 ? Are you a modern ‘Kumba karna’ ?

      Talking about syariah courts ….. it’s power was given a level as civil courts by the great DrM !

      I’d see it as a issue of the non-muslim society rather than a tussle of politics . But the point here as i stated above is that when come BN it’s all about umno nothing more ; nothing less . You will see it to differ when comes to Pakatan. A little check and balance .

      Remember one similar case happened among chinese as well recently …… well Killer will blame it on hindraf anyway….

      Let’s welcome smart inputs from commumity as a whole while leaving CIA agent Killer to find faults in hindraf on his own….

  7. poobalan says:

    well, thanethiran gave his view on Malaysiakini. i don’t suppose it will appear in print media. surprising that even MHS statement also did not appear in papers.

    actually i made a small mistake. even though religion is state matter, for Penang, it comes under Agong and federal rule. Thus the ball should be back in federal govt’s court. State government can only provide some pressure via public statement.

    as HINDRAF were present at court, I don’t see the zero that you seem to notice. Instead i see Zero for the rest who were not even there.

    MIC, while being rejected by indians in penang and perak, still have 650k members and should use this opportunity to make their presence felt. when opportunity falls on their lap, they are still asleep. guess they are not as smart as you.

    I don’t expect Prof Rama or Kula to protect the rights, but the respective EXCO or assemblyman should be the one. PRof Rama already stated his stand – he is for all malaysians. At least he got the guts to say and do it. compare that to the rest of the 221 MPs and 600 over assemblymen.

    my bottom line is different from your. due to HINDRAF, many proposal are being considered and implemented, whereas before this it was brushed aside. Surely you remember Samy saying that numerous proposals were sent to cabinet, PM, DPM, Mampu, ministers etc. Oh, right, Samy lies so we should disregard his statements. What about MHS’s statements on their proposals? Can we believe them?

    sad to say, i don’t share your belief that at federal level some changes are being made on the issue of conversion. Bear in mind that its been a long time since the last dispute happened. They are just pulling our collective legs. If pakatan or any others groups are expected to being instantaneous in the actions, surely we can expect the same from federal authorities?

    regardless of PAS support, such rules can be passed as long as there’s 2/3 majority. Now, if BN is smart, they’ll push for a standardised procedure via changes in the relevant Acts, stand back and see how DAP and PKR vote. would the two parties support such bills on conversion or oppose it?

    • VJ says:

      very well said MP . This is the rationale thinking that i was talking about . Hopefully ppl like Killer could start thinking that way .
      Even if someone is MIC supporter , that’s fine , but have to think to bring it to the next level rather than just live with dinosours .

      Though we’re supporting Pakatan but doesnt mean that we’d take it for granted . I’d agree with MP on the possiblity of Pakatan being messed up by PAS .
      The reason is simple , when you put religious on top of society things could go awry sonner or later . As i wrote in a chinese blog , there’s only one man could glue them(DAP/PAS/PKR) together whom is AI .

      Remember it was only him could dare to challenge NEP and came up with alternate MEP . He was addressing huge crowds claiming equality in every aspect. He is the only Malay leader i’ve seen whom asked bumi students to buck up . Well if he fail in his blue print , if formed federal , then he will fail in politics . That simple . The people , especially non-malays , had enough with leaders without integrity as we see now in federal .

      As for the ‘standardised procedure’ , i’m that sure BN(umno) will never propose such bill . Guess what , those component parties will not push either , bcos they are mere yes-man .

      PA does have the great possiblity of forming federal . But sustaining and passing bills will be depending on radicalness of PAS .

  8. Killer says:

    Yo Poobalan

    Alamak, you are becoming like VJ and other HINDARF goodas lah, simply tembak lah…

    You are incorrect about Islam’s status in Penang. Although Penang’s head of Islam is the King but the state still has the legislative right in Islamic matters. The only difference is that instead of getting the final approval from Sultan, they need go to the King himself.

    This is from the Penang state constituition.

    “The Legislature by law shall make provision for regulating Islamic religious affairs and consituiting a Council to advise the Yang DiPertuan Agong in matters relating to the religion of Islam.”

    I have the PDF file of Penang’s Constitution. Let me know where to send it to. I will be glad to send to you and have it posted here.

  9. Killer says:

    Poobalan

    I am not expecting immediate action from PR govts but some statements and actions from their leaders to reaffirm their pre-election stance on the issue. They also should pursue and pressure the BN govt on the federal laws and make changes at the state level.

    Is this happening ? None of the PR leaders have made any statements on this issue or brought it up to the parliament. No comments in their blogs too. Where is Anwar when we need him ?

    I am not talking about zero HINDRAF presence but ZERO contribution. Indians have voted for them via PR so they have the right to expect changes and action. Anyone can issue statements, demo or write in their blogs. But people want actions and solutions. What HINDARF have done, please enlighten me…

  10. poobalan says:

    actually that’s what I meant. the head of religion for Straits states and FT is the King. Of course the respective assemblies can draft the legislations (enactments) but it has to go through the Council and the King.