Archive for the ‘Religion’ category

Update of forum attack by thugs (3)

August 11th, 2008
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Samy Vellu gave his response on the forum fiasco. He agrees that the forum should be held indoors and in private:

“There should be a more sensible approach to settle the issue and it should not be debated in public.”Such issues should be discussed behind closed doors where Muslims and non-Muslims can raise their grievances. The public forum on Saturday did not benefit any party and angered certain groups.”

He also mentioned that the subject of conversion was discussed at the last BN supreme council meeting while he was a minister (that’s at least 6 months ago). Prime Minister gave assurance to find a solution that will not hurt both parties. Election time, so anything goes.

Thus, Samy Vellu earns the distinction for being the first (and only?) non-Muslim leader who disagrees with the public forum being organised. Well done.

Utusan meanwhile carried calls for ISA (from certain party members) to be imposed on the forum organisers. The reports sounded one-sided since only one group people gave their views.

More amazing is the revelation by Ahmad Zahid that a civil-syariah joint committee being established under Prime Minister’s Department. He said that discussions have been made with Minister Zaid Ibrahim. The committee will focus on divorce, child custody, wealth allocation, etc. Now, the discussion for such cases is to be done out of court between the civil lawyer and syariah lawyer. The discussion CANNOT be revealed in public to avoid misunderstanding and public debate.

Read part 1 and 2.

Update of forum attack by thugs (2)

August 10th, 2008
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Police confirmed that Zulkifli Nordin is not being detained under ISA, so the anonymous caller who contacted Mahaguru58 was wrong. However, The Star reports that he could not be contacted by media or fellow PKR mates. Hope there’s no statutory declarations from him.

 

Meanwhile Gerakan is second party after a MIC’s sole respondent (Mohan from MIC Youth). Gerakan’s president Koh Tsu Koon asked that the joint committee of Civil and Syariah lawyers to convene immediately.

“They need to formulate, clarify and rectify procedures related to marriage between Muslim and non-Muslim, connversion, custody of
children and burial rites after death,” he said.

Koh said the committee was formed to work out solutions following several controversies related to Muslim converts after death or breakdown of marriages.

“It is urgent to reconvene the committee which I am told has not met for some time.

“There will be controversy and even conflicts over family matters related to religious conversion if the issues are left unresolved, he said, adding the problem would continue to haunt the multi-religious society in the country if it is left unresolved.

The Star’s version had some extra details of Koh’s statement which covers the kerosene bombs and PKR,PAS, UMNO participation:

Dr Koh also specifically condemned the use of kerosene bombs on the house formerly owned by Bar Council president Datuk Ambiga Sreenevasan, which is now the house of Wanita Umno deputy chief Datuk Seri Shahrizat Abdul Jalil.

“It is regrettable that some members of political parties such as PAS, PKR and Umno were involved in the almost violent demonstration,” said Dr Koh, who pointed out the involvement of and strong words uttered by PAS Youth chief Datuk Salahuddin Ayub and Kulim-Bandar Baru MP Zulkifli Noordin or PKR.

“We should be aware of sensitivities about religions by all respective believers. Therefore, all politicians must take a rational and reasonable approach to look at how to fine-tune the relevant laws and procedures to avoid or minimise potential inter-religious controversies and conflicts,” he added.

Another Gerakan leader also agreed. Gerakan national legal bureau chairman Datuk Chang Ko Youn said the forum should have been allowed to go on.

There are many ancillary issues arising out of the provisions of Article 121(1a) and these must be resolved fast. I believe the forum,
if it was allowed to go to its full length, could have found solutions to some of the issues.”

Chang, who is also Gerakan vice-president, said the council should not be accused of fanning religious or racial sentiments or being disrespectful to Muslims for organising the forum.

In the mean time, I’m sure we are all happy to hear that Jeanne Abdullah (previously Danker), wife of Prime Minister is happy with the her new religion.

Describing Islam as a “beautiful religion,” Jeanne said she had no regrets ever since she converted at the age of 23 for marriage.

“I am proud to be a Muslim. It is about being good and doing good things,”  she said yesterday at the inaugural national-level Muslim Convention.

“My most favourite time is when Pak Lah (Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi) reads the Quran with me during subuh (dawn). I read it in English and he reads and explains to me.”

Jeanne and Abdullah married in June 2007.

“I enjoy reading the Quran without rushing and relish every word,” she said.

Previously known as Jeanne Danker, she was born in 1953 to a Catholic Portugese-Eurasian family.

Her mother was understanding when she told her she wanted to convert to Islam and advised her that if she wanted to be a Muslim, she should be a good one and talk to someone who could help her.

“I practised being a good Catholic. I went to church, attended catechism classes and read the scriptures,” she said.

“My mum and dad were happy that I was happy and accepted that I wanted to be a Muslim. We became closer after that. She passed away 21 years ago,” she added.

Jeanne encouraged Muslims not to forget their parents even if they were of a different religion and to have a new
zest to share the religion with others.

“Islam is not about race or where you come from but it is about doing good.

Well, at least she’s being truthful saying the she converted for marriage AND informed her parents about it (in 1976/77). Obviously its much different from spouses who convert without informing the partner and unilaterally convert children as well. Or cases where there are no proper proof of conversion. Anyway, we have to wait and see if anyone non-converted relative of Jeanne’s will lay claim over her assets once she dies. Also she’s clear on one thing – Islam is not about the race. But a pity that this simple notion is deliberately ignored, and certain people muddle Islam with Malay to suit their own agenda.

 

By the way, among the thugs involved were members of Indian Muslim Restaurant Owners Association. If anything happens, would they “balik India” ? I’m not sure.

 

Also, Deputy Prime Minister said that such reaction (thuggery) was expected. That may be because those thugs have received their instructions beforehand. I also guess that means its green light to storm and threaten anything the people disagree with. No wonder UMNO branch and division meetings are becoming more exciting nowadays 🙂

 

Ultimately, in asking these talks to be done behind “closed doors”, we are publicly admitting our failure in creating a Bangsa Malaysia, in creating a mature society, in setting up check and balance, in protecting the rights of all Malaysians, and in promoting a just and fair country . That perhaps, will be the catalyst for downfall of the country – economically, politically, and socially.

 

Finally, Bar Council’s Ambiga said that no more forums for the moment

There were no plans for another forum in the future, she said.

“Even if we do have one, we would prefer to hold it behind closed doors.”

Now, did anyone know that there was a special session on religion by the Department of National Unity and Integration held in UM for last two days? It came out with 10 recommendations. More on that later.

Update of forum attack by thugs

August 10th, 2008
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Update on Forum fiasco attacked by muslim thugs: SMS going around saying MP for Kulim Bandar Bharu Zulkifli Nordin have been detained under ISA. Uncorfirmed. For the record, he has been detained before.

PKR issues statement condemning the attack, but stands by Anwar Ibrahim that the forum should be held behind closed doors.

Meanwhile, Mahathir still trying to cow the other races by invoking the previous leaders like Tan Siew Sin and Sambanthan who praised the Malays for allowing citizenship to Chinese and Indian without enforcing rules. I think the rest of Malaysians are moving forward already, but this attempt to enslave us with “gratitude-owing” is nothing but an attempt to build their supremacy.

Bar Council write their version of the forum happenings.

Earlier postings:

The real threat to national unity

Police side with forum protestors

Bar Council defends forum

The real threat to national unity

August 10th, 2008
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Looking at the way (i) TV3 potrayed the protesters (focusing on PAS and PKR MPs) only when the real culprits were the pseudo-UMNO GPMS and PEKIDA, plus bloggers like Mahaguru58, (ii) the animal-like antics of the protesters, (iv) the action of the police who seemed to encourage plan to storm the building, and (iv) the silence of the political parties, I get the impression that the real threat to national unity is Islam and its followers. It sounds terrible and my Muslim friends most likely will get upset, but that’s what I feel after seeing the attack by the protesters. If the “real” Muslims don’t do anything, I think your religion will be branded as the worst religion in the country. You guys talk about virtues and holier-than-thou values, but in reality demeaning others all the time. Just goes on to show the falsity of your following. If with barely 60% of the population you are behaving like this, imagine in 20 years time. We will be literally treated as slaves. Those protesters talk as if they are the only humans in the country and only their feelings count. What about the suffering of families of
converts? Why this double standards? Is this what your religion preaches?By the way, this is the question Mahaguru58 asks (errr…mahaguru is sanskrit word!) :

Do Malaysian Muslims go around poking their nose into the Non Muslim Malaysians religious affairs?

We don’t!

Now, tell me he sincerely don’t know the answer. Was he in deep meditation for the last decade? Islam is an intrusive religion. It intrudes into anything and everything. That’s the problem.

I hope those 200 to 1000 protesters (depending on who reported) are not the representing the muslims in the country. If 30,000 thousand Indians rallying does not represent 1.8 million people, I fail to see how 1000 people (we just take the bigger estimate) can represent about 15 million people. I hope there are more sensible people like former Suhakam commissioner Mehrun Siraj and others who agree that the protesters who storm the building is not the correct way.

Open discussion is the way to discuss the issues between Muslims and non-Muslims. Don’t insult Islam,” she (Mehrun Siraj) said amidst the shouts of the protesters.

In NST:

Meanwhile, Mehrun told reporters that the topic should be discussed in a nice way and the public should be allowed to express their views.

She also said that the NGO representatives’ action to interrupt and stop the discussion was uncalled for.

“What I feel need to be done is to explain to the people what Islam is  all about. I think we can come to discuss instead of shouting. That is not the way.

“I am unhappy with it because it gives Islam a bad name,” she said.

Mehrun urged the government to amend Section 3 of the Law Reforms (Marriage and Divorce) Act 1976 to give opportunites to a converted spouse to annul his or her civil marriage at the Civil Court in cases  where the other spouse opted not to convert.

Currently, she said, there were cases being brought up to the Civil Court between the converted spouse and his or her non-Muslim partner disputing which jurisdiction — the Syariah Court or the Civil Court — should adjudicate the dissolution of civil marriage and custody of children from their civil marriage.

“To me, the problem arises due to the lack of understanding among the non-Muslims and it is our duty to explain to them, but not by shouting or bullying,” she said.

She added that more such discussions should be held to give opportunities to Muslims to explain matters related to Islam to the non-Muslims.

She responded when one of the demonstrators, wearing a green and white Malay Student Front (GPMS) shirt, started the verbal melee
when he grabbed hold of a microphone and lashed out at the crowd of about 100 participants.

I represent Umno. Stop this forum” declared the unidentified individual who also uttered “Don’t insult Islam” and “You! Chinese, Indians, go to hell!”.

Interestingly, those who attended the forum were called “babi, pengkhianat and balik China” among others. So, is it a religious protest or plan to create racial problem. Susan provides an interesting view:

About going home to China…please-lah, there are more Muslim Chinese in China, than they are Malaysian Muslims in Malaysia, I think. I laugh to think of this archaic notion, which I hope, is only held by a small sector of the protestors.

Bar Council placed themselves on a higher pedestal:

Earlier, in officiating the forum, Ambiga had told participants that the protesters had a right to voice their views provided that the forum is allowed to continue. “Demonstrators are exercising their freedom of expression. We will certainly not lodge police reports
against them,” she said, adding that they were open to share their views within the forum as well.

It is very clearly explained by Bar Council on the objectives of the forum. Are those politicians so dumb until can’t understand the reasons? Why after 51 years still need to hide behind walls and cry our feeling out? Why we cannot tell our misery in public? Are we slaves? Is all those promises made during vote-currying purely lies? Why not reprimand your senior politicians? So far, only the temporary national coordinator of MIC Youth had come forward with a press statement. I’ll understand if people from Kuala Krai who perhaps are not able to understand English or follow the orders of their political masters makes police report, but what about the rest? Even PKR’s Kulim Bandar Bharu’s Zulkifli Nordin who said he was there representing Muslim Lawyers Association created big havoc. HINDRAF who is strong in Kulim area need to take note on this. Anyhow, Mahaguru58 blog states that Zulkifli havbe been warned and further action will be taken. Remind everyone to get rid of this guy in the next elections. So far DAP’s Tony Pua has made a statement. DAP’s Lim Kit Siang focuses on the police and Ministers’ response. And where is the rest of BN and PR? Hiding behind someone’s skirt?

I think Malaysians are clear about the forum. But those few people who are bent on causing problem don’t seem to see so.

Even the behavior of the protesters were different. Read below:

Although they appeared to have a uniform objective, the crowd appeared to have split into two entities – Umno-linked and opposition-linked – as the protest drew on.

Some 100 protesters led by Muslim Students Front (GPMS) – an Umno-linked organisation – were the first to arrive at the Bar Council headquarters in Kuala Lumpur, the venue of the forum, at about 8.30am.

According to a spokesperson, a total of 19 Muslim NGOs, including Indian Muslim Congress (Kimma), Muslim Consumer Association and Muslim welfare group Pekida, were part of this group.

At about 8.45am, another group of about 100 protesters led by PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub marched to the venue unexpectedly.

Jarring chants ensued as both groups yelled two different series of slogans.

Choice  of banner and poster mediums were also starkly contrasting. The  GPMS-led group used full colour canvas banners, while the PAS-led group used small posters on photocopied paper.

Despite their differences, leaders from both groups took turns to address the crowd on a common loudhailer.

From the speeches, glaring differences in the two groups’ approach again came to the fore.

A GPMS leader who spoke repeatedly stoked the crowd into storming the Bar Council building if the forum does not end by 10am – the time given by the protesters to the forum organisers.

This was echoed by repeated calls of “rempuh (charge)” by the angry crowd.

Sensing the rise in tension however, PAS leaders who took over the loudhailer and repeatedly reminded the crowd to remain calm and sit on the road until the forum is cancelled.

Even the normally firebrand cleric Dr Badrul Amin Baharom tried to keep the crowd under control by setting a more relaxed tone for the demonstration

“If no one disturb the religions of others, we would leave peacefully. We don’t disturb the Christians, the Hindus and the Buddhists. We urge that they do not incite (unrest) among the rakyat with religious issues.

“I’m sure even the non-Muslims are not happy with religious issues being played up,” said Badrul Amin, who is also a PKR supreme council member.

PKR Kulim-Bandar Baharu MP Zulkifli Noordin however broke ranks with his opposition colleagues when he called on the crowd to storm the building should the forum continue.

“If you don’t hear from us at 10am, you should all storm the building,” he said, before he led a four-member delegation representing the protesters to state their position to the forum organisers.

Zulkifli had participated in the demonstration as a representative from the conservative Lawyers in Defence of Islam (Pembela) organisation.

At about 10am, a section of the crowd tried to break past the police barricade but were held back by riot police and PAS maroon-clad
volunteer corps better known as Unit Amal.

Other than this, there was no untoward incidents reported. However, forum participants who later left the building were subjected to verbal abuses and obscenities from the crowd.

Forum organisers were then forced to release participants from the back entrance of the building.

At about 10.24am, Zulkifli emerged from the Bar Council building and declared that the objective of the protest had been met as the forum has been cancelled.

The crowd eventually dispersed at about 10.30am.

The enemy of Malaysians have been revealed. Are we having religious terrorists (not made up ones like HINDRAFs, but real terrorists) just like in other countries? People who use religion for their own interests? Muslim brothers and sisters – beware. Get rid of this cancer before it further degrades your faith in the eyes of others.

Worse still, the events today have revealed how the police and Home Minister work. These people are coming with thousand and excuses to cover their actions, which only reveals further how untrustworthy and discriminative things are now. The police can’t even protect a building, but willing to move heaven and earth to bash protesters at every other gathering! Would that qualify for Malaysian Book of Records?

When asked if it was fair to break up a function held in private premises, he (Asst Comm Zulkarnain) said: “We have to. It depends on the level of risk and if the threat is increasing, then we have maintain public order.”

The Home Minister instead said he will tread carefully before considering using ISA on the organisers!

It is up to each and everyone of us to protect the country OR to give up and move on to greener pastures. Sad to say, another of my friends is considering Australia today.

Meanwhile some of the testimonies made during the forum are below (taken from Malaysiakini):

Prior to the disruptions, the forum went ahead when three women brought on stage to share their experience with legal wrangling resulting from religious conversions.

One woman brought on stage, an ethnic Chinese, narrated how her father had met an Iranian woman before embracing Islam and marrying the woman without the family’s knowledge.

“Mother was devastated. She did not know what she did wrong… He was married to mum for 30 years. During the divorce process, he agreed to give mother our house.”

“One day, the hospital called and informed of his passing. It was during the divorce process… The authorities did not recognize my mother as his wife and me as his daughter. Our property was gone. Home didn’t belong to us.

“It is not fair. It is not justice,” said the woman in between sobs.

A German woman, known only as Anita, who shared her story later said that  she had a civil marriage with a Malay Muslim man in England, who claimed to be an atheist at the time.

When the couple returned to Malaysia, Anita said she was ‘converted’ during a Muslim marriage, which eventually ended in divorce and she would have to remain a Muslim.

“Why does the family take it upon themselves to convert Western girls who come here? People should be able to choose. Why is it so rigid?
Relationship is supposed to be free,” she said.

Another woman who shared her story to the participants was Marie Rayappan whose family was caught in a tussle over her deceased father – Anthony Rayappan’s – remains with the religious authorities.
The second session of the forum involved a panel discussion on the custody battle between R Subashini and her former husband T Saravanan@Muhammad Shafi Saravanan Abdullah.

In 2006, Saravanan had converted to Islam, taking the name Muhammad Shafi, sought a divorce and applied for custody of the couple’s two children through the Syariah courts.

Subsequently, Subashini filed for an injunction against Muhammad Shafi’s action at the Syariah Court but was rejected at all levels up to the Federal Court.

The forum panel consisted of lawyers Haniff Khatri Abdulla, K Shanmuga and Ravi Nekoo and moderated by activist Zarizanana Abdul Aziz.

Two other panelists – Federal Territories Islamic Department (Jawi) Syariah prosecutor Dr Mohd Naim Mukhtar and Institute of Islamic Understanding (Ikim) representative Dr Wan Azha Wan Ahmad – pulled out of the event at the last minute.

Shanmuga argued that Muhammad Shafi should have sought a divorce at the civil court as their marriage was a civil marriage.

“In this case, because of the conversions, jumping spouses say that the new rule rules,” said Shanmuga, who is Subashini’s lawyer.

Haniff Khatri however argued that by virtue of embracing Islam, Muhammad Shafi had a right to seek recourse at the Syariah Court.

“He had the urge to convert at the age of 19. Syariah principles must be advanced as long as it doesn’t infringe the rights of the non Muslim. There are principle guidances in Islam,” said Haniff Khatri, who is Muhammad
Shafi’s lawyer.

The last speaker Ravi concurred with Shanmuga and advised that all converts who embrace Islam finish their obligations at the civil courts before moving to the Syariah Courts.

“There cannot be two conflicting orders in one case,” he said.

Police side with forum protestors

August 9th, 2008
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I think it can’t get anymore clearer than this. Everywhere else, its the protesters who are bashed up, arrested, chased after and shot with tear gas/water cannon. I thought the same rule applies for all. But we have seen that people like Khairy get special treatment.

Today, the police asked the forum to end early instead of getting rid of the protestors. Now, I’m not telling the police to treat the protesters like how they treated the HINDRAF rally attendees. Let people protest, but in an orderly manner. If anyone turns phyiscal, arrest them. But it is very embarassing to read that police asked the forum to end early! Worse still, only yesterday this guys made a joke that they will “not hesitate to take action if anyone gathered at or near the Bar Council because of its forum on conversion to Islam”.

Dang Wangi OCPD Asst Comm Zulkarnain Abdul Rahman said police would be on full alert and advised people not to hold gatherings there. He said this was meant for those who were against the forum and those who supported it. But look what happened today. These people can afford to put bored-looking policemen to relax at roadblocks but can’t control a measly crowd of 300.

Both Malaysiakini and Star have the story.

Among the 300 protestors are members of Muslim welfare organsation Perkida and Islamic party PAS, who shouted, “Hancur Bar Council” (Crush Bar Council), “Hidup Islam” (Long Live Islam) and “Batal forum” (Cancel the forum). They carried placards saying “Jangan cabar Islam” (Don’t challenge Islam) and “Bar Council, Don’t play with fire”.

Among the protest leaders seen in the crowd are PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub. The protesters, many of whom came just before the forum began, later decided to sit down in front of the Bar Council building and vowed that they would not budge until the event had been cancelled. Some threatened to storm the building to physically stop the forum.

Due to the advice from police, the program ended at 10am, about one hour after it started.

A leader of the protesters – PKR Kulim-Bandar Baharu parliamentarian Zulkifli Noordin – declared the abrupt end of the forum as a victory
for them. By 10.40am, most of the protesters have dispersed.

Most embarassing is PKR and PAS are in it. What is DAP’s stand on this? And do you realise that MIC, MCA, Gerakan and PPP cowards don’t even dare to open their mouths. COWARDS. COWARDS. COWARDS. Definition for political parties in Malaysia. All these people know that they can’t say a thing or they will be roasted. They will come up with the usual “we will talk about this in our own way” crap. But 51 years also no solution, what more can you talk about? You can’t be that stupid or have low IQ, can you? There’s no political will to solve this inter-religious contentions. That’s the problem.

Now imagine if we, the makkal, protest against the criminal, seditious teacher in Teluk Panglima Garang. You think the police will be so kind? They’ll chase the people away, not close down the school. I dread to think of the day when church sermons or temple prayers are asked to be stopped because some people protest at the noise, smell, or traffic jam.

No wonder more and more Malaysians are considering migrating. Recently two of my friends expressed their intentions.