Posts Tagged ‘intolerance’

The real threat to national unity

August 10th, 2008
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Looking at the way (i) TV3 potrayed the protesters (focusing on PAS and PKR MPs) only when the real culprits were the pseudo-UMNO GPMS and PEKIDA, plus bloggers like Mahaguru58, (ii) the animal-like antics of the protesters, (iv) the action of the police who seemed to encourage plan to storm the building, and (iv) the silence of the political parties, I get the impression that the real threat to national unity is Islam and its followers. It sounds terrible and my Muslim friends most likely will get upset, but that’s what I feel after seeing the attack by the protesters. If the “real” Muslims don’t do anything, I think your religion will be branded as the worst religion in the country. You guys talk about virtues and holier-than-thou values, but in reality demeaning others all the time. Just goes on to show the falsity of your following. If with barely 60% of the population you are behaving like this, imagine in 20 years time. We will be literally treated as slaves. Those protesters talk as if they are the only humans in the country and only their feelings count. What about the suffering of families of
converts? Why this double standards? Is this what your religion preaches?By the way, this is the question Mahaguru58 asks (errr…mahaguru is sanskrit word!) :

Do Malaysian Muslims go around poking their nose into the Non Muslim Malaysians religious affairs?

We don’t!

Now, tell me he sincerely don’t know the answer. Was he in deep meditation for the last decade? Islam is an intrusive religion. It intrudes into anything and everything. That’s the problem.

I hope those 200 to 1000 protesters (depending on who reported) are not the representing the muslims in the country. If 30,000 thousand Indians rallying does not represent 1.8 million people, I fail to see how 1000 people (we just take the bigger estimate) can represent about 15 million people. I hope there are more sensible people like former Suhakam commissioner Mehrun Siraj and others who agree that the protesters who storm the building is not the correct way.

Open discussion is the way to discuss the issues between Muslims and non-Muslims. Don’t insult Islam,” she (Mehrun Siraj) said amidst the shouts of the protesters.

In NST:

Meanwhile, Mehrun told reporters that the topic should be discussed in a nice way and the public should be allowed to express their views.

She also said that the NGO representatives’ action to interrupt and stop the discussion was uncalled for.

“What I feel need to be done is to explain to the people what Islam is  all about. I think we can come to discuss instead of shouting. That is not the way.

“I am unhappy with it because it gives Islam a bad name,” she said.

Mehrun urged the government to amend Section 3 of the Law Reforms (Marriage and Divorce) Act 1976 to give opportunites to a converted spouse to annul his or her civil marriage at the Civil Court in cases  where the other spouse opted not to convert.

Currently, she said, there were cases being brought up to the Civil Court between the converted spouse and his or her non-Muslim partner disputing which jurisdiction — the Syariah Court or the Civil Court — should adjudicate the dissolution of civil marriage and custody of children from their civil marriage.

“To me, the problem arises due to the lack of understanding among the non-Muslims and it is our duty to explain to them, but not by shouting or bullying,” she said.

She added that more such discussions should be held to give opportunities to Muslims to explain matters related to Islam to the non-Muslims.

She responded when one of the demonstrators, wearing a green and white Malay Student Front (GPMS) shirt, started the verbal melee
when he grabbed hold of a microphone and lashed out at the crowd of about 100 participants.

I represent Umno. Stop this forum” declared the unidentified individual who also uttered “Don’t insult Islam” and “You! Chinese, Indians, go to hell!”.

Interestingly, those who attended the forum were called “babi, pengkhianat and balik China” among others. So, is it a religious protest or plan to create racial problem. Susan provides an interesting view:

About going home to China…please-lah, there are more Muslim Chinese in China, than they are Malaysian Muslims in Malaysia, I think. I laugh to think of this archaic notion, which I hope, is only held by a small sector of the protestors.

Bar Council placed themselves on a higher pedestal:

Earlier, in officiating the forum, Ambiga had told participants that the protesters had a right to voice their views provided that the forum is allowed to continue. “Demonstrators are exercising their freedom of expression. We will certainly not lodge police reports
against them,” she said, adding that they were open to share their views within the forum as well.

It is very clearly explained by Bar Council on the objectives of the forum. Are those politicians so dumb until can’t understand the reasons? Why after 51 years still need to hide behind walls and cry our feeling out? Why we cannot tell our misery in public? Are we slaves? Is all those promises made during vote-currying purely lies? Why not reprimand your senior politicians? So far, only the temporary national coordinator of MIC Youth had come forward with a press statement. I’ll understand if people from Kuala Krai who perhaps are not able to understand English or follow the orders of their political masters makes police report, but what about the rest? Even PKR’s Kulim Bandar Bharu’s Zulkifli Nordin who said he was there representing Muslim Lawyers Association created big havoc. HINDRAF who is strong in Kulim area need to take note on this. Anyhow, Mahaguru58 blog states that Zulkifli havbe been warned and further action will be taken. Remind everyone to get rid of this guy in the next elections. So far DAP’s Tony Pua has made a statement. DAP’s Lim Kit Siang focuses on the police and Ministers’ response. And where is the rest of BN and PR? Hiding behind someone’s skirt?

I think Malaysians are clear about the forum. But those few people who are bent on causing problem don’t seem to see so.

Even the behavior of the protesters were different. Read below:

Although they appeared to have a uniform objective, the crowd appeared to have split into two entities – Umno-linked and opposition-linked – as the protest drew on.

Some 100 protesters led by Muslim Students Front (GPMS) – an Umno-linked organisation – were the first to arrive at the Bar Council headquarters in Kuala Lumpur, the venue of the forum, at about 8.30am.

According to a spokesperson, a total of 19 Muslim NGOs, including Indian Muslim Congress (Kimma), Muslim Consumer Association and Muslim welfare group Pekida, were part of this group.

At about 8.45am, another group of about 100 protesters led by PAS Youth chief Salahuddin Ayub marched to the venue unexpectedly.

Jarring chants ensued as both groups yelled two different series of slogans.

Choice  of banner and poster mediums were also starkly contrasting. The  GPMS-led group used full colour canvas banners, while the PAS-led group used small posters on photocopied paper.

Despite their differences, leaders from both groups took turns to address the crowd on a common loudhailer.

From the speeches, glaring differences in the two groups’ approach again came to the fore.

A GPMS leader who spoke repeatedly stoked the crowd into storming the Bar Council building if the forum does not end by 10am – the time given by the protesters to the forum organisers.

This was echoed by repeated calls of “rempuh (charge)” by the angry crowd.

Sensing the rise in tension however, PAS leaders who took over the loudhailer and repeatedly reminded the crowd to remain calm and sit on the road until the forum is cancelled.

Even the normally firebrand cleric Dr Badrul Amin Baharom tried to keep the crowd under control by setting a more relaxed tone for the demonstration

“If no one disturb the religions of others, we would leave peacefully. We don’t disturb the Christians, the Hindus and the Buddhists. We urge that they do not incite (unrest) among the rakyat with religious issues.

“I’m sure even the non-Muslims are not happy with religious issues being played up,” said Badrul Amin, who is also a PKR supreme council member.

PKR Kulim-Bandar Baharu MP Zulkifli Noordin however broke ranks with his opposition colleagues when he called on the crowd to storm the building should the forum continue.

“If you don’t hear from us at 10am, you should all storm the building,” he said, before he led a four-member delegation representing the protesters to state their position to the forum organisers.

Zulkifli had participated in the demonstration as a representative from the conservative Lawyers in Defence of Islam (Pembela) organisation.

At about 10am, a section of the crowd tried to break past the police barricade but were held back by riot police and PAS maroon-clad
volunteer corps better known as Unit Amal.

Other than this, there was no untoward incidents reported. However, forum participants who later left the building were subjected to verbal abuses and obscenities from the crowd.

Forum organisers were then forced to release participants from the back entrance of the building.

At about 10.24am, Zulkifli emerged from the Bar Council building and declared that the objective of the protest had been met as the forum has been cancelled.

The crowd eventually dispersed at about 10.30am.

The enemy of Malaysians have been revealed. Are we having religious terrorists (not made up ones like HINDRAFs, but real terrorists) just like in other countries? People who use religion for their own interests? Muslim brothers and sisters – beware. Get rid of this cancer before it further degrades your faith in the eyes of others.

Worse still, the events today have revealed how the police and Home Minister work. These people are coming with thousand and excuses to cover their actions, which only reveals further how untrustworthy and discriminative things are now. The police can’t even protect a building, but willing to move heaven and earth to bash protesters at every other gathering! Would that qualify for Malaysian Book of Records?

When asked if it was fair to break up a function held in private premises, he (Asst Comm Zulkarnain) said: “We have to. It depends on the level of risk and if the threat is increasing, then we have maintain public order.”

The Home Minister instead said he will tread carefully before considering using ISA on the organisers!

It is up to each and everyone of us to protect the country OR to give up and move on to greener pastures. Sad to say, another of my friends is considering Australia today.

Meanwhile some of the testimonies made during the forum are below (taken from Malaysiakini):

Prior to the disruptions, the forum went ahead when three women brought on stage to share their experience with legal wrangling resulting from religious conversions.

One woman brought on stage, an ethnic Chinese, narrated how her father had met an Iranian woman before embracing Islam and marrying the woman without the family’s knowledge.

“Mother was devastated. She did not know what she did wrong… He was married to mum for 30 years. During the divorce process, he agreed to give mother our house.”

“One day, the hospital called and informed of his passing. It was during the divorce process… The authorities did not recognize my mother as his wife and me as his daughter. Our property was gone. Home didn’t belong to us.

“It is not fair. It is not justice,” said the woman in between sobs.

A German woman, known only as Anita, who shared her story later said that  she had a civil marriage with a Malay Muslim man in England, who claimed to be an atheist at the time.

When the couple returned to Malaysia, Anita said she was ‘converted’ during a Muslim marriage, which eventually ended in divorce and she would have to remain a Muslim.

“Why does the family take it upon themselves to convert Western girls who come here? People should be able to choose. Why is it so rigid?
Relationship is supposed to be free,” she said.

Another woman who shared her story to the participants was Marie Rayappan whose family was caught in a tussle over her deceased father – Anthony Rayappan’s – remains with the religious authorities.
The second session of the forum involved a panel discussion on the custody battle between R Subashini and her former husband T Saravanan@Muhammad Shafi Saravanan Abdullah.

In 2006, Saravanan had converted to Islam, taking the name Muhammad Shafi, sought a divorce and applied for custody of the couple’s two children through the Syariah courts.

Subsequently, Subashini filed for an injunction against Muhammad Shafi’s action at the Syariah Court but was rejected at all levels up to the Federal Court.

The forum panel consisted of lawyers Haniff Khatri Abdulla, K Shanmuga and Ravi Nekoo and moderated by activist Zarizanana Abdul Aziz.

Two other panelists – Federal Territories Islamic Department (Jawi) Syariah prosecutor Dr Mohd Naim Mukhtar and Institute of Islamic Understanding (Ikim) representative Dr Wan Azha Wan Ahmad – pulled out of the event at the last minute.

Shanmuga argued that Muhammad Shafi should have sought a divorce at the civil court as their marriage was a civil marriage.

“In this case, because of the conversions, jumping spouses say that the new rule rules,” said Shanmuga, who is Subashini’s lawyer.

Haniff Khatri however argued that by virtue of embracing Islam, Muhammad Shafi had a right to seek recourse at the Syariah Court.

“He had the urge to convert at the age of 19. Syariah principles must be advanced as long as it doesn’t infringe the rights of the non Muslim. There are principle guidances in Islam,” said Haniff Khatri, who is Muhammad
Shafi’s lawyer.

The last speaker Ravi concurred with Shanmuga and advised that all converts who embrace Islam finish their obligations at the civil courts before moving to the Syariah Courts.

“There cannot be two conflicting orders in one case,” he said.

Bar Council defends forum

August 8th, 2008
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The report in Malaysiakini provides more explanation on the forum‘s objectives:

Although matters of faith and race are always sensitive and emotive, dialogues and discussions of the problems arising out of the Syariah and civil courts’ separate jurisdictions and issues “ancillary” to religious conversions are critical to their resolution, he (council vice-president K Ragunath) said.

Speaking at a press conference at the council’s office in Kuala Lumpur, Ragunath said such forums are also necessary given the government’s reluctance to address the issues constructively and by including all the relevant stakeholders increase the probability of arriving at “a just and amicable solution”.

“Concerns of some quarters, including a number of cabinet ministers such as Deputy Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak, Home Minister Syed Hamid Albar, (minister in charge of Islamic affairs) Ahmad Zaid Hamidi and various NGOs and PAS are noted.

“We reiterate that our concern is to address the issues of conflicts of laws facing families caught between the separate jurisdictions of civil and Syariah laws,” he added.

Such calls for the forum to be cancelled in view of the sensitivity of the topics expected to be raised therein – and claims that the forum will create “misunderstanding, anger and tension” – stand opposed to Prime Minister Abdullah Ahmad Badawi’s plea for more interfaith dialogues among Malaysians to promote and ensure religious harmony, he added.

Ragunath reiterated that the forum will not be questioning Article 121 (1A) of the Federal Constitution which gives Syariah courts jurisdiction over Muslims, nor diminish Article 3 which explains Islam’s position.

“The forum is not about conversion per se, as the Bar Council endorses the right of individuals to embrace Islam. Instead, the forum will address the ancillary issues that arise from such situations and will emphasis the need for laws, and a judicial system that protects everyone equally.

“The way forward to resolving any dispute or issue is to firstly promote greater understanding of the views of all the parties involved. We accept and understand that matters relating to faith and race are always sensitive and emotive.

“However, regardless of the sensitivity, we must strive to move forward to achieve a just, fair and amicable solution to the problems faced by so many individuals. The stifling of debates, talks and discussions would be counter-productive and would only fuel hate, fear and insecurity within the affected communities,” he argued.

Describing Malaysian society as “mature and responsible,” Ragunath said “it wants to, and is ready to, exchange views in public, even difficult issues, in efforts to further strengthen national unity and foster interfaith harmony.”

“Discourse on issues confronting the nation cannot take place only at official levels, behind closed doors, but must be inclusive and involve the public and those whose lives are affected by them.

“Calls to halt discussions on any issue imply that there are aspects to those issues that the public does not have a right to know about, which is counter to the principles of the open, progressive and democratic society that we have evolved into.

“We believe that the continued suppression of open and respectful discourse, not public forums, that will cause tension and jeopardise national unity,” he added.

He also called for the government to do more by way of “constructive dialogue and meaningful debate.”

Explaining that the issue of separate legal jurisdictions is not unique to Malaysia, Ragunath stated whenever there are two conflicting or differing views (on a legal matter), “we need to dialogue (on it) and create awareness.”

On the part of the council, Ragunath said it was taking the necessary precautions to ensure the dialogue takes place in a “controlled and constructive measure” and invited all – supporters and critics alike – to attend the forum and to air their views.

Even those intent on demonstrating tomorrow against the forum or submitting to the council a memorandum expressing their grievances with it, are welcome to do so, said Ragunath.

“If they’re sending a memorandum, we’ll accept the memorandum. If they want to demonstrate, that is their right to demonstrate – as long as it is peaceful,” he said further.

Among the speakers at the forum are director of the Institute of Islamic Understanding’s Center for Syariah Laws and Political Science Dr Wan Azhar Wan Ahmad and Syariah lawyer Mohd Haniff Khatri Abdullah.

Mohd Haniff represented the Federal Territory’s Islamic Religious Council in the case of R Subashini. K Shanmuga and Ravi Nekoo, who were counsel for Subashini and S Shamala, respectively, are also slated to speak.

The moderator will be Zarizana Abdul Aziz of the Women’s Centre for Change (WCC).

Ragunath said the only person to have pulled out as a speaker is former Syariah judge and currently the Federal Territory Islamic Department’s Syariah prosecutor Dr Mohd Naim Mokhtar. About 150 people are expected to be at the forum.

At least the Bar Council is stating its reasons for organising the forum.  Its about the non-Muslims and how conversion of our loved ones affects us. Estimated crowd is about 150 only. If the media doesn’t write about it or broadcast it, more than half of Malaysians won’t even know about this forum. Now with all this publicity, the forum will attract more attention. Which is good. Bar Council organised a few forums and so far attempts to create problem by certain political party and its affiliated religious NGOs has failed. Hope this one goes on well too.

playing to the gallery

August 7th, 2008
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On one side, there’s condemnation of the Bar Council organised forum on conversion, but at MCCBCHST’s dinner yesterday, Prime Minister Badawi sang a different tune. He says that more interfaith dialogues should be held to ensure continuous harmony among Malaysians of different religions. He would ask Unity, Culture, Arts and Heritage Minister Datuk Seri Shafie Apdal to continue having such dialogues.

“I will tell Shafie to do what is good and have such meetings as regularly as he can. At some of these meetings, I plan to sit in, too,” he said at the silver jubilee dinner of the Malaysian Consultative Council of Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Sikhism and Taoism.

Abdullah assured those present that what he said was not merely a ploy to pacify and please non-Muslims.

“I understand your concerns and try to do whatever I can to find solutions to issues involving non-Muslims. We are brothers and sisters who must work together and continue practising tolerance and patience as a way forward for this nation.”

Abdullah said non-Muslims, however, must understand and respect that matters relating to the aqidah (faith) of Islam could neither be “touched” nor “changed”. But he assured non-Muslims that
they would be treated fairly and justly as required by the Quran and Allah. “When we are friends, between Muslims and the non-Muslims, it is easy to work things out.”

Abdullah said he had been entrusted with the responsibility of looking after the affairs of all Malaysians. “For me, justice for all is the most important thing. It is the command of Allah to be trustworthy in executing my duties. The people have trusted me and expect me to deliver. “I am here to assure you that all are protected and can enjoy living in Malaysia as Malaysians.”

Earlier, the council’s president, Datuk A. Vaithilingam, said members had discovered that by sitting together and talking through interfaith differences, potential flashpoints and major problems could be avoided and disputes settled peacefully and amicably. However, he claimed many non-Muslims felt marginalised in today’s Malaysia.

Well, can’t blame him. Politicians have to say things according to the situation. We can’t trust them.

Forum on conversion under attack as another convert faces problem

August 7th, 2008
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I was wondering how can it was all quiet when Bar Council announced its plan to organize a forum entitled “”Conversion to Islam: Article 121 (1A) of the Federal Constitution, Subashini and Shamala Revisited”. It took some time for the attacks to come, but boy they came strongly. Bar Council is under attack from all corners. Some, like Deputy PM Najib, are a bit mild:

Deputy Prime Minister Datuk Seri Najib Tun Razak said today it was not proper to hold the forum on “Conversion to Islam” openly.

As the religious matter was a sensitive issue, he said, the open forum — organised by the Bar Council and scheduled for Saturday — could provoke emotion among various quarters who might feel that the issue being discussed was against their stance.

The government, however, would not stop any form of discussions, including on religious matter, but felt that they should be held behind closed doors, he said.

“I don’t think that all these sensitive  matters can be discussed (openly). It’s better to talk about it behind closed doors.”

 


Others like Ahmad Zahid only dare to make noise at a Islamic forum (He spoke at the National Faraid and Hibah Convention today.). I wonder if he have the guts to speak to non-Muslims Malaysians who affected by suspect conversion cases.

He said the Bar Council should not interfere in matters related to Islamic affairs, the Malay Royalty and the Malays if it wanted to remain respected.
He said the Bar Council should be aware that the Article 121 (1A) of the Federal Constitution, which touches on religious matter and the Malay race, was a sensitive issue and should not be discussed openly as doing so would instigate the Malays.

“Even though there was already the first series of the forum and this will be the second, the silent majority among the Muslim community in Malaysia has not risen up to show their protest.

“But don’t make us do so,”

Syed Hamid also voiced his disagreement on the forum. He said yesterday that any dialogue or debate that could stoke racial sentiments and instil hatred should not be held.

 

 

He said there were more “pros than cons'” in having an open dialogue on the matter.”When discussions centre on sensitive matters such as religions or ideologies that could lead to misunderstandings and conflicts, such talks should be avoided from being held in the open,”

Said Syed Hamid: “What is it that we want to solve? Through such openness in discussing sensitive matters, do you think solutions can be found or made?”

Malaysiakini reports that PAS president emailed a statement as well opposing the forum:

 

 

“Although, PAS accepts the freedom of expression of various parties to dialogue and discuss issues of public interest, nevertheless, issues concerning Islam is something already guaranteed in the Federal Constitution.

 

“As such, PAS feels if the forum goes ahead, it may raise tensions between Muslims and non-Muslims. This will jeopardise the  harmony of the country and will not be beneficial to anyone,” said Hadi.

 

Any discussion pertaining Islam, said Hadi, should involve those who had sufficient knowledge and are authorities in the subject.

 

“PAS is of the opinion that the Bar Council’s initiative, which is secular in nature, will only confuse the real understanding of Islam and cause undue tension.

“To guarantee stability between different religions and races, PAS calls for the forum to be cancelled.”

PAS spiritual leader Nik Aziz also has his say:

The Kelantan Menteri Besar, who said he was wary about the forum’s objective, also suggested that the Bar Council organise other more constructive forums. “It’s better that we organise a forum where the Muslims and the non-Muslims can discuss the values of religion,” he told reporters.

He was commenting on the call by various parties, urging the Bar Council to call off the programme as it could affect the harmonious relations among the multiracial public.

Meanwhile, Perak Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Mohammad Nizar Jamaluddin said the Bar Council should openly state the details of the subject matter to be discussed at the forum to avoid misunderstanding.

“Let it be known. If they say that they want to have a forum on conversion to Islam, it’s too general and wide and there will be a lot
of misunderstanding and negative perception. So they should state it openly and clearly,” he said.

Meanwhile, PEKIDA says it will hold a picket if the forum takes place on Saturday. Pekida president Jamaludin Yusof said its 100,000 members are currently awaiting instructions to protest the forum.

The forum, said Jamaludin, openly challenges Muslims as religious issues are sensitive.

“This is as if the Bar Council wants to challenge the position of Islam as the official religion of Malaysia by discussing issues which could cause political instability in the country,” said Jamaludin.

“Such discussions can cause Muslims to feel challenged,” he added.

Umno Youth executive council member Datuk Pirdaus Ismail said the forum could create uneasiness among the people, particularly among Muslims and warned the Bar Council Malaysia not to “stoke the fires of disunity.” The movement strongly opposed the Bar Council’s plan to organise an open forum on conversion to Islam.

“Don’t play with fire! Don’t ever touch religious and racial (matters)!” he said in a statement released on Thursday.

“Why has the Bar Council been stoking the fires of disunity lately — like they have been used by foreign powers who want to create chaos and intervene in the country’s internal affairs?” he said.

“Whatever (the) excuses given, the forum would still provoke Malay sentiment and create uneasiness and public disorder, particularly among the Malays,” he said in the statement.

He said the movement urged the authorities to implement preventive measures before the situation got out of hand.

Pirdaus said the Bar Council had previously also organised a forum on the much-discussed social contract, which incited anger among the Malays and created doubt in the other races.

“It is pointless to organise forums based on intellectualism, professionalism or controversial issues when the safety, peace, harmony and stability of the country were being compromised,” he added.

Ulama Association of Malaysia (PUM) Secretary-General Dr Roslan Mohammad Nor claimed the forum was intended to question the status of Islam under the Federal Constitution.

“PUM feels that any move to debate the Islamic principles and system, and the rights of Muslims without consulting those with authority on the subject, will only create confusion and misunderstanding towards Islam,” said Roslan, adding that the Bar Council should call off the forum.

Muslim Consumers Association of Malaysia Secretary-General Datuk Dr Ma’Amor Osman said the Bar Council should not interprete the law according to its whims and fancies.

“Manipulating one’s expertise in law for personal gain is like stirring up the hornet’s nest,” he said.

I think the topic is quite clear – focus is on conversion, Article 121, and two cases (Subashini and Shamala). By all means, its talking about
non-muslims. What happens if one converts. Note the “if” in it. Its about the future actions of an individual. Someone is who not yet a muslim. Its not about Islam or Muslims. Its about the rest of the country. Don’t think as if you are the only one in the country who have rights la.

 

I think in future MCCBCHST should organise forums on these topics exclusively for their faith followers. Topics should cover – ‘how to spot an conversion attempt”, “what to do if someone tries to convert you”, “how to avoid being converted”, “how to undo conversions”, “the perils of conversion’. This should be done nationwide in temples, churches, monasteries, gurdhwaras and so on. We need this to protect our rights from disputable and damaging effects of converting to Islam.

 

Bar Council however are adamant that they will continue. Perhaps MCCBCHST, and other religious bodies should support Bar Council’s forum. Council vice-chairman Ragunath Kesavan said the council would continue.

“The issue to be debated involves the rights of parties which have not been clarified by the Federal Court,” he said, adding that it did not matter if the apex court was right or wrong in the matter.

Ragunath said a court ruling could be debated in a democratic society like Malaysia and that the body would not succumb to pressure on the matter.

He said it was not proper that problems faced by families in such situations be swept under the carpet.

“It is not proper that discussions and forums organised to address such concerns be disparaged, on the pretext that such forums can provoke misunderstanding.”

Ragunath said the problem would not go away if there was no open discussion and instead would only breed dissatisfaction, rumour mongering and hatred.

He said the council had invited all stakeholders to get a balanced view and a better understanding on the subject.

Ragunath said the council was not questioning Article 121 (1A) of the Federal Constitution conferring jurisdiction to Syariah Courts.

“Our concern is that there are increasingly more families caught up in the conflict of laws arising from the conversion of one spouse to Islam.

“This issue must be addressed and we must all work to seek an acceptable solution for all concerned parties.”

As for the ladies concerned it was reported in late 2002 that Shamala had left the country, taking  her children, Saktiswaran, then 5, and Theiviswaran, 3 years and 8 months old, with her. Suhasini lost her appeal to unconvert her children and is waiting for another round of legal action, if I’m not mistaken.

 

Now, read the following case involving a lady who wants to leave Islam because she converted due marriage reasons:

An appeal by a Muslim convert to practise the religion of her choice as she had used her original Chinese name in her suit was dismissed by the Court of Appeal yesterday.

In a majority ruling, the court said the convert’s Chinese name no longer existed following her conversion to Islam.

Judge Tengku Baharudin Shah Tengku Mahmud and Datuk Sulong Matjeraie were in the majority while Datuk Vincent Ng Kim Khoay dissented.

Tengku Baharudin said the appellant was not a legal entity as her previous name no longer existed after she had obtained a new identity card.

Following the ruling, two other similar appeals were also dismissed on the same grounds.

At the outset of the appeal, Tengku Baharudin asked parties whether the appeal was competent because the convert’s original Chinese name was used. Lim Yoke Khoon took the name of Noorashikin Lim Abdullah when she converted to Islam.

Lawyer Edmond Bon, who was appearing for Lim, said there was no confusion as to the identity of the person, whether she carried her Chinese name or Muslim name.

“She is a living, legal and natural person seeking legal rights to enforce her rights to convert out of Islam,” he said.

He said the respondents did not dispute this fact at the High Court.

Selangor State Legal Adviser Datin Paduka Zauyah Loth Khan, who appeared for the Selangor Religious Council and the state government, submitted that Lim’s appeal was incompetent because her identity card  carried a Muslim name.

“But the suit contained her Chinese name,” she said.

Senior Federal Counsel Arik Sanusi Yeop Johar said only the National Registration Department (NRD) was the rightful authority to change the name of a Malaysian.

He also said the Court of Appeal could decide on the legal status of the convert although the High Court had overlooked the matter.

In her originating summons, Lim, now 35, said she had to convert when she married a Muslim in 1994. She obtained a new identity card which carried her Muslim name.

She said she did not have a happy marriage, and three years later, when they were divorced, she wanted to become a Christian and marry a non-Muslim.

In June 2003, she made a statutory declaration and a deed poll declaring that she had renounced Islam and converted to Christianity and taken her original Chinese name.

She applied to the NRD to change her name and religion in the identity card. However, the NRD rejected her application and asked for a certificate from a syariah court or the Selangor Religious Council as proof that she had renounced Islam.

In 2003, she also filed an action in the High Court in Shah Alam seeking a declaration that she was no longer a Muslim.

She also wanted a court order to direct the NRD to amend details in her identity card

Conversion to Islam forum

August 3rd, 2008
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I wonder who will be protesting against this forum:

The Family Law Committee of the Bar Council Malaysia will
organise a forum on issues relating to conversion to Islam.

The forum Conversion to Islam: Article 121 (1A) of the Federal Constitution, Subashini and Shamala Revisited will be held on Aug 9 at the Bar Council headquarters here.

Bar
Council Malaysia Family Law Committee deputy chairman Foo Yet Ngo said
it was concerned over the issue of conversion to Islam that had caused
much grief and conflict.

Among the issues was that of one person
converting to Islam without the knowledge of the spouse, and the
conversion to Islam of the children by one parent without the knowledge
and consent of the other.

“The problems are due to the conflict
of jurisdiction between the Syariah and civil court in relation to
divorce, child custody and distribution of property,” she said at a
press conference yesterday.