Subscribe in a reader | Subscribe by Email I am at times amazed at the level of creativity or ingenuity (you may call it naivety or stupidity) our people have. I think the aim of becoming a creative and innovative nation is achievable indeed. I mean just look at the amount of nonsense written at this blog: Gerakan Anti PKR with predictably slanted political view (caution: lots of profanity there even though supposed to be religious). These folks trying to make a racial issue of out the Sosilawati murders by pointing out that the alleged murderers are all Indians while the four victims are all Malays. How pathetic and despicable can this be? I think should file a case against them for committing murder against our common sense! You can report their page for inciting hatred by visit the Google Blogger here.
The police have indicated that the group may been (most likely) to be involved in few other missing person case, which include Indians! You can check all the major newspapers.
The murderers are not bothered about the victims race or religion nor whether its a festive season. They are not in the mood for bermaaf-maafan! They only want money.
Remember, this is not a hate crime against persons from certain race or religion. No churches attacked or cow heads paraded. No throwing of pig head into mosque compounds.
Remember, crimes are committed by all kinds of people. Remember Mona Fandey. Remember Al-Maunah. Remember Botak Chin. Remember Bentung Kali. Remember Ahmad Najib (Canny Ong case). Remember Bakaruddin Busu (UiTM lecturer killed and burned). Remember Altantuya (exploded to death).
One blog mentioned about the suspect being a member of DAP. So what? You expect every DAP member to be a saint? Bad guys are in all the parties. And just now, Senator Murugiah said one of the suspect inquired about joining MIC! So, MIC members all criminals? Use head a bit la. People join political parties mainly for self-interest – try to get something from the party, be it some license, support letter, position of power, influence etc. Very few join for purpose of upholding principles. Some don’t even know they are members because registered by other people.
Someone also said the lawyer represented HINDRAF. So what? You expect to do a detailed background study of a lawyer before hiring him/her? Maybe this guy offered to act on a pro bono basis.
Instead of focusing on the main issues of a crime, the stories are spinned to link with political and racial issues.
My concern is why the group was not properly investigated before this. Rumours going around many previous cases not properly investigated due to links with high places. For me, if its true, corruption is the root cause of these murders.
Crime knows no boundaries, color, creed. It can happen to anyone if fated to be so. For anyone to label any crime as racial is just absurd. Any websites with profanity are just not worth linking to nor worth reading. Poobalan.com, thank you for the interesting updates on this latest gruesome crime.
Nice one!
Even our ppl are twisting the fact. just read through the posting in MIClub and UMIClub
do remember kerling? Hacked to death cause disturbing temple – taking laws into their own hands…remember Kpg. Medan..brought gangs just because the road closed a day for wedding..later became racial riots…remember 7/11 Ipoh 3 indian stupid indians hacked a malay worker just to rob a few dollars…a t least kugan went for expensive items
remember kerling….kpg medan….7/11 Ipoh etc
That just shows how rationale they are in twisting whatever it is to whatever they want to perceive
serve ur right u indian, before this u defame us the muslims, crying to the world that we are committing genocide (hindraf memorandum), than turn the death of car thief kugan into racial issue, attacking the police force. So now its the time of the malay to settle the score,
I personally hope those criminal would be tortured to dead by the police, no need to bring them to the court of law wasrting of time and of course if they go to court they will be a lot of hindu lawyer who are going to defend them and twisting the fact in the court. biasala bela kaum
wan,
so this is about “settle the score”? not about death of so many people? i don’t know what to say if that’s the level we have stooped down to.
note about genocide: In the present UN Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
* (a) Killing members of the group;
* (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
* (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
* (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
* (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
you should ask hindraf how they came about using the word genocide and their justification.
I’m confused on your use of “muslims” and “malay”. which is which? The police force consists of muslims and/or malays only? who is this “us the muslims”? the public? the government? some political party?
the death of kugan was about police brutality, especially when many lock-up deaths involved indians. note that the case is on-going now. not many people focused on that except hindraf, so it took a racial tone. did you see any other parties/groups like umno, pas, mca, gerakan or ppp talking about car thief kugan?
what if the defendants’ lawyers are not hindus (or even indian)? what are you going to say next? its a legal process and the defendants can hire whoever they want as long as the lawyer wants to represent them. probably a lawyer with much conscience will thing twice about representing criminals, but remember, lawyers have their own code of ethics as well, regardless of their religion. even if you read newspaper, in most of criminal cases, the lawyers are indians. so the probability is high that for this case it may be indian lawyers defending the suspects. but doesn’t mean its “bela kaum” la. this is like putting 2 and 2 together and saying answer is 5.
anyway, this is my opinion, which is obviously different to yours.
MP: Edited. use of offensive words will not be tolerated.
aiya what for you talk to this person name Wan. if those killed arent malays and especially a rich malay you think the police will be so fast in tracking the murderers. how come this case was not investigated so thoroughly when all those other people were killed or missing. why cuz they are indians or some other race. remember the altantuya murder, the accused was freed cuz hes malayu and look at the Teoh case also no progress why becuz the dead victim is chinese and the so called perpetrators are macc (also all melayu). this country called malaysia is so damn corrupt anything goes.
Dear Wan,
I am a Malaysian sitting overseas, reading about the happenings in Malaysia. I am deeply disturbed by all the “hate” developments in Malaysia.
Previously racial remarks (“hate”) were only brought up by our politicans. But sad to see that ordinary man on the street (like yourself) echoing the same.
The killings for these 4 individuals has nothing to do with race (there were 4 indians(and counting) local and foreign killed before the 4 malays were killed). These killings are all about greed. I wished our police followed up on the earlier missing cases. These 4 families could have been spared so much grief.
Pls do not take this the wrong way, but a word of advice, if one has received an education then one has the skills to evaluate facts before forming an opinion.
Hope you are having a wonderful Raya.
MP: Edited. i’m trying to reduce conflict here.
Wan,
Does Islam teaches racism ? The last i checked with my muslim friends they said no. Since you proclaim your self as a muslim, are you really ? If yes than i beleive you have such a low knowledge on islam. I think you should go and re-learn what true Islam is all about. Its * like you who tarnish the name of Islam. You dont represent muslims. You just represent a small twisted racist group which exists in every society. Get re-educated.
And This Is For Ryder:
You need Psychiatric treatment on racism. I beleive deep inside your subconscious mind there resides racist tendencies which may have been the effect of unhappy and traumatic childhood. Its a disease which is far scarier than cancer itself. Better get it cured before you damage yourself and the Malaysian society.
MP: edited. Names removed until charges are confirmed.
One of these brothers was in the UK recently trying to sell parcels of land to Malaysian Expartriates.I had two invites but as I had no interest I did not attend.Their names are DATUK P**** and S**** is the younger one.Both their photos are on the Soliswatsi facebook account.
By the way, I am so sorry for soliswatis family.This is crime that trancends all racial boundaries.I hope these murderous scum deserve what come their way.They are hung once proven, I hope.It is not a question of race or religion.Such xcriminals have no religion or race or humanity in them
Poobalan;
In the Kugan (a criminal) case, his funeral was fully sponsored by the Selangor state government, he was driven to the grave in a Mercedes.. His entourage to the grave was few miles long.What a grand send-off?
The Indians paraded and were incited by the politicians (DAP and HIndraf) saying things like “Polis dahagakan darah India”. Don’t you feel this is a racist statement to incite the Indians against the police .I am sure the Indian community must be very surprised that an Indian police officer was charged instead.
This “Datuk” is an Indian,a lawyer, ex Bar council exco member, a lifetime DAP member and Hindraf lawyer. Period. Together with other Indians had slaughtered 4 Malay bread-winners in the holy month of Ramadan and to add injury to the Muslim community, had burned their body to ashes. Period.
Do the Malays paraded with posters “HIdraf dan DAP dahagakan darah Melayu” ?, Hindraf dan DAP – penghapusan etnik Melayu?
I am sure if the murderers were Malays instead and the victims were Indians, I am sure there will be a lot of protest by the Indians community throwing things like “racist Malay” and blaming the BN and UMNO controlled and corrupted government.The Malays are angry deep inside!
hi gundu,
i’m not aware that selangor govt sponsored the funeral of Kugan. can i get the source of that info? i remember seeing the video clip in youtube, and it looks like very costly affair. i don’t think its appropriate for state govt to spend so much money for a common person (regardless that he is a suspect). Note: he was killed before trial, so in terms of legality, still a “suspect”. if the state govt sponsored burial expense or gave some token amount to the family, its understandable. but if pay for parade etc., its not acceptable.
As you may be aware, DAP (or any other political party) will politicise such issues. That’s why we should not take their words and actions seriously. for me the phrase “polis dahagakan darah India”is meant to imply that the police are racists, not the indians. correct if i’m wrong here. yes, it was meant to incite the indians, but in reality, how many was incited? ask people in the street, and many are confident and feel secure due to police presence AND the know there are few bad apples in any organisation. coincidentally near to kugan’s death, few lock-up death cases in last two years involved indians. so what conclusion can we reach here? is it a SOP problem? or lack of staff? lack of facilities? police attitude? anyway, assuming that DAP and Hindraf were wrong in kugan’s case, what does that has to do with the indian community?
let me venture out a bit here: assume the banting murders suspects die in police lock-up (for whatever reason). what are we going to say? no court case, so they will still be “suspects”.
The datukship was found to bogus it seems. Bar council has many members and committee members both past and present, so is bar council meant to keep track of all of them. FYI, the lawyers were suspended, but their suspension is pending due to appeal in court. Today, DAP’s Tony Pua said they are not lifelong member (and T Murugiah mentioned the suspect inquired about joining MIC!). and HINDRAF denied that the suspect represented them in any case (maybe the initial starter of this news got confused with lawyer N.Surendran – just my hunch). so, no datuk, no dap, no hindraf. left with lawyer and indian. the way you are putting it, every indian lawyer is a murderer??? How about those from “mixed” background, like Gani Patail?
The situation looks bad and becomes worse due to holy month of Ramadan and burning of bodies. as i have written, do criminals really care about holy month or the victims’ religion? for them its to dispose evidence as efficient as possible. remember, the lecturer from uitm was killed and burned too. what i’m saying here is look at from crime point of view, not from racial or religion point of view. don’t be influenced by political parties. don’t link to past things and say you did that, so now we did this. especially when things are unrelated. the choice is yours on how you want to think.
One good thing, Malay community hopefully not influenced by attempts by certain quarters to racialise this issue. that’s why no parade as you mentioned (the parade should be by Umno and Perkasa right, since for kugan it was DAP and Hindraf?). if there was, maybe it will fault the police for their inaction all this while. i think if the current victim was not a high profile persons and if only one person missing, the murders will still be unsolved and the group will continue with the crime.
well, i’m sure that if “the murderers were Malays instead and the victims were Indians”, the community would be blaming the police for the earlier inaction. because we know criminals don’t come from any one race only. Because we know, the total victims consists of malays, indians, locals and foreigners. because we can see that the crime was not based on religion or race. that’s my view.
Dear Poobalan;
Besides Kugan, there were also many Malays death under the police custody.Do the Malays community made noise on ther death? Do they protest?
Did I in insinuate in my posting that all Indians and lawyers are murderers? This is your absurd assumption.
Malays in Malaysia tend to be a sensible and tolerant group. If these murder cases were to happen in Gujarat (India) , Poso, Sampit,Ambon (Indonesia), I am pretty sure, these places will be in smoke then.Malays masses in Malaysia seldom act aggressively unless they were provoked up to their limit.
Please google these places and see how a simple incident such as a fight due bus ticket could provoke a racial clashes that bring miseries to thousands of families.
Please revisit the history of Malaysia especially on the racial conflicts in Malaysia and this part of the region (Thailand, Indonesia, Malaysia, Phillipines included). For a start, please read “THE 13TH MAY 1969 RACIAL RIOTS
The True and Fair View from http://jebatmustdie.wordpress.com/. I can provide you other links if you are interested.
We need to understand “Why it happen” to prevent it happening again.Malaysia could not afford another May 13 or another Taman Medan incident, please.
hi again Gundu,
I’m not if the Malay community made noise or not, but I think the Hindraf fellow did make noise. didn’t he win the case for a malay lady recently?
well, my apologies if the assumption is wrong, but that what i understood. maybe you can clarify the below so that there’s no confusion:
“This “Datuk” is an Indian,a lawyer, ex Bar council exco member, a lifetime DAP member and Hindraf lawyer. Period. Together with other Indians had slaughtered 4 Malay bread-winners in the holy month of Ramadan and to add injury to the Muslim community, had burned their body to ashes. Period.”
Not only Malays, i think all groups in Malaysia are a tolerant lot. We rarely have any conflicts unless its in the underserved or poverty stricken areas like, as you mentioned, Kg Medan.
Thanks for the link. I shall read it.
look at the bright side my fellow muslim and malay friends… even if you say other race are easily incited and politicize events such as Kugan case…. let them be…
let show them how rational our people are… and then Hindraf will also refine back their standing, have a sense that sometimes things are not meant to be exaggerated… be the matured citizens kay?
MP: edited.
Hello to mr poobalan the blog owner, and to all
This gruesome brutal murder once again bring crack to our society since the victim and suspects were from different community, me, myself, being a malay-muslim feel terrible and disgusted with these murderers, am im not going to hide one the main reason is because the victims are from my community,
Mr poobalan you cannot hide from the fact, whenever a violent crime occured, and involved victims and suspect from different community, these racial and religous issue will come out, you go to any place in this world, its same.
U know why wan, gundu and ryder behave like that? I think because this is not the first time indian gangster committed violent crime towards the malays.
this list:
1. A robbery and murder of an Islamic Religous officer who works part time as cashier in petronas station in ipoh, These hindu robber slash the victim mercilessly in his head.
2. A robbery and rape case in kangkar pulai, johor, where 8 indian burglar broke into a malay house, beating the husband and rape his wife at dawn these b******** criiminal also force the husband to watch her wife being ravished in front of him. Funnily those 8 robber only take 2 laptops and camera. Obviously their evil motive was not robbery primary, they WANT to rape that poor muslims woman.
After the incident the malay in that neighborhood had become very angry, and started to mass. With sms calling for revenge had being circulated, things will surely turn very ugly for the indian community If not for the the swift police action and heavy police presence,
3. And if u still not forget a deadly mass riot nearly broke out in pasir gudang, johor in year of 2007 due to rape cases done by indian gang against malay woman.
4. Im sure u aware of a malay-indian riot that broke out in Taiping-kamunting area in perak, during may 2009,
The cause of this riot is after a malay boy lost his hand after being attack by drunkard indian gangster with parang.
5. One rape cases in kelang earlier this year, where four indian youth were accused to rape a malay woman and use a stick to stab her provate part.
6. 4 or 5 years ago, a malay IT techincian had being beaten to death by two indian road bully , the reason because he overtake him at the road.I also have a friend told me that, a car drived and boarded by 5 indian man chase him, just because he overtake him
Ini belum masuk lagi kes pergaduhan biasa yang sepatutnya hanya pergaduhan kecil tetapi menjadi besar apabila apabila orang india ini membawa parang dan geng untuk menyerang orang melayu. and of course this indian will become bold in area they have significance number like prai or kelang.
With all this kind of incident and from other people experience, i began to think that younger generation of indian really hate the malay-muslim and they are not going to miss any chance to hurt us in any encounter.
So my friend and i began to feel that we have to take precaution if u want ot step into indian domianted area or where they had significance number.
Is this feeling racist Mr poobalan?, for the indian like you, surely i am a racist person, b
but as people say, better be safe than sorry,
sorry for my poor command in english
hi safwan,
thank you for dropping by with your comments.
in the cases, you mentioned, were the malays the only victims? was the crime proven to purposely targeting malays (or non-indians, if you want to be more general?) if yes, then its considered hate crime and also racial crime, in addition to robbery/rape/violence etc. note that in case number 2, if you take the word “muslim out of “poor muslims woman”, it becomes “poor woman”. the criminals primary motive may be to rape, regardless of what religion the victim is. same goes for the other cases. substitute the word “malay” or remove it, and you can easily find similar case in newspapers, involving victims from other races.
if can, get someone to read to you from tamil newspapers and see the crime committed by indians against indians. i think your listing will be like hill against mountain.
let’s take the banting murders. the victims, this time were malays. in fact maybe another two other victims were malays as well. some were indians, and may be one chinese as well. so, this is not a hate crime related to any race. only that the suspected murderers are indians.
as you may know, the current violent crimes are reportedly by indian gangs and also foreigners. and contrary to your listing there, many, many indian families has suffered from indian criminals. let me share with just TWO in the last TWO weeks. my indian neighbor in SHAH ALAM (95% malay-muslim population) is an indian family. this is near intec, not even sri muda area. four indian guys passed by on motorbikes, saw the old lady watering plants outside the house. pretended to ask question, and then bashed her before stealing her gold chain. she in hospital for few days.
next, my indian friend in seremban, was sitting in living room, forgot to lock main door. two indian youths enter with parang and all. stole valuables and escaped within minutes. luckily it was not injured.
in areas like Tmn Sentosa Klang, all residents are worried about potential crime due to the various gangs and pseudo-gangsters around.
Now, just because i saying the stories above about the indians, am i a racist? nope because the crime doesn’t target certain races only.
coming back to your comment. so, you are saying that younger generation indians “really hate” malay-muslims and will hurt you in any encounter. tell me, how many ‘younger generation indians” do you meet in a day or a week, in a close situation? do you feel threatened when you are in such situation? if you think that all indians are criminals waiting to attack you, well, i don’t know what to say.
note: i promote anti-alcohol campaign because i strongly feel alcohol is one cause of the criminal tendency among wayward youths. together with lack of education, lack of guidance, and mixing with wrong group, this contributes towards gangsterism and crime among the indians.
one more thing: why do you come to the conclusion that younger generation indians hate malay-muslims until can commit such crime? what is the reason for this “hate”? cannot be exist by itself?
It is sad that such incidents happen in malaysia which was once a symbol of multiracial and peaceful living.But we must not fall victims to this racila phobia.A criminal whatever race is a criminal.The criminal really has no race or religion.That is as simple as one can make it.let us handle these criminals rather than worry about race.As for my friend Safwan , perhaps you are right that many bad things have happned where the victims have been malaysi, but I am sure such has also happened where the victims are Chinese or tamil or Sikhs.The point is to stop such criminal activities whatever the race.
MP: I’m not sure what “prc” stands for, so i’ll leave it as it is. the source for this article is http://theflyingkick.blogspot.com/2010/09/ketegangan-melayu-india-hampir-tercetus.html
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This is article for prc poobalan and other so called liberal person: read first, i dont have time to translate it to english. and also for KulimGS, i assume he is from kulim and i think he is aware of this
“Sikap Melayu yang banyak bersabar dalam beberapa perkara, ada kalanya perlu dipuji. Malah kesungguhan pihak berkuasa untuk menutup dan melindungi cerita agar kesan negatifnya tidak menular ke seluruh negara juga, adakalanya sangat dihargai. Dan mungkin kerana sifat serta tindakan sebegitulah yang memastikan negara ini sentiasa berada dalam keadaan aman dan makmur, meskipun sebenarnya ia lebih bersifat seperti api di dalam sekam.
Itulah yang berlaku di Paya Lebar, sebuah petempatan yang dahulunya merupakan kawasan estet getah yang luas di Lunas, tidak jauh dari bandar Kulim, pusat strategik ekonomi Kedah Selatan.
Kisahnya tidaklah ‘sehebat’ perang 13 Mei 1969 di Kuala Lumpur. Bagaimanapun, ia mempunyai kaitan dengan politik. Ahli Parlimen bagi kawasan tersebut adalah Gobalakrishnan, pelakon dan penjilat punggung Anwar Ibrahim yang sangat hebat dan sedang berhadapan dengan masalah perebutan jawatan selaku Ketua Cabang Lunas secara tiga penjuru (dua India, satu Melayu).
Menurut laporan, kejadian tersebut berlaku seminggu sebelum Aidil Fitri. Sekumpulan remaja India telah mengganggu, meraba dan cuba mencabul kehormatan seorang gadis Melayu. Beberapa orang remaja Melayu segera menyelamatkan gadis Melayu yang meminta pertolongan daripada orang ramai. Kejadian berlaku tidak jauh dari sebuah kedai makan.
Remaja-remaja India berkenaan bagaimanapun meminta maaf dan berlalu. Bagaimanapun pada pukul 1.45 pagi, tidak kurang 30 buah motosikal yang dibonceng oleh remaja-remaja India muncul semula. Mereka bersenjatakan parang, kayu dan besi. Destinasi mereka adalah ke kedai makan milik seorang lelaki tua Melayu.
Apa yang berlaku seterusnya bagaikan sebuah drama Tamil. Dua orang lelaki Melayu yang sudah berusia menjadi mangsa. Salah seorang daripada mereka, putus urat tangan. Seorang lagi menerima 12 jahitan akibat luka di kepala. Beberapa orang kanak-kanak kecil yang berusia 4-6 tahun diterajang oleh samseng-samseng India tersebut.
Kes berkenaan dilaporkan kepada pihak polis. Hasilnya, daripada lebih 50 orang remaja India yang merusuh, mencedera dan merosakkan harta awam, hanya 4 orang yang berjaya ditangkap dan diberkas. Mereka bagaimanapun, dibebaskan selepas dijamin.
Dikhabarkan, beberapa pihak cuba MERASUAH pekedai Melayu itu agar menarik semula laporan polis yang dibuat dengan tawaran wang yang lumayan. Bagaimanapun, tawaran tersebut ditolak.
Sumber juga memberitahu, polis telah memanggil beberapa NGO Melayu termasuklah PEKIDA untuk melakukan perbincangan. Antara yang turut sama dalam mesyuarat dan perbincangan berkenaan adalah Gobalakrishnan, MP Padang Serai selain beberapa pemimpin kanan PAS kawasan.
Tahap kesabaran orang Melayu di kawasan Lunas dan Kulim sebenarnya cukup tinggi. Kegiatan dan kewujudan begitu banyak kumpulan-kumpulan samseng remaja India sebenarnya sangat membimbangkan di kawasan tersebut, terutama selepas estet-estet yang menjadi kampung halaman tuk nenek dan mak bapa mereka sebelum ini telah bertukar menjadi kawasan perumahan dan kilang.
Sesuatu harus segera dilakukan di kawasan itu bagi memulihkan keamanan yang suatu ketika dahulu tidak pernah tergugat meskipun UMNO dan PAS berperang sakan dengan isu kafir-mengkafir sesama sendiri. Apa yang dikatakan tohmahan kepada Gobalakrishnan nampaknya seperti menjadi kenyataan dengan kemunculan samseng-samseng remaja India yang seolah-olah sedang menjadikan Lunas, Kulim dan kawasan sekitar pekan Padang Serai seperti medan pergaduhan di dalam filem-filem Tamil.
p/s : ANTARA SAKSI UTAMA KES INI ADALAH SEORANG BLOGGER yang terkenal dengan pendedahan salah laku kepimpinan negeri Kedah di dalam blognya.
u see see; how uncivilised indian community are right now, WHO ALWAYS START THE INCIDENT AND DREW THE FIRST BLOOD?
I think hindu -indian gangster become very bold right now especially in committing wrong doing towards the malay-muslim because of this reason:
every time this damn indian gangsters attack , beat or slash malay man or molested malay woman they will run away and hide in some place, As the malay gang began to mobilize and start to hit back, the usually slumber malaysian police would quickly act to difuse the situation, surrounding the indian area (to protect them) and eventually stop the malays from settling their score (in order to prevent racial riot), So as it laways be, the malays were force to buried their anger deep in their heart.
This indian criminals (if police ever managed to arrest them) would finally beeng realeased on bail, and even if they went to court, im pretty surely they are going to be released again
as their defence lawyer (proabably an indian like them) will always manage to manipulate things, twisting fact and use technical problem to make sure the judge will decide their client are not gullty.
so this kind of incidence is going to be repeated again again because hindu gangster sense that they are going to get away with it and more importantly their family and neghborhood are always being protected by the police against malay retaliation. ( Since most malaysian policeman are malay im sure most malay iare not going to shed blood with them).
Im pretty sure that im going to be cursed and accused by most this blog reader, so be it,
From the incident that happened uin Kulim, u can see the cowardness of these indian gangsters, they are only dare in molesting lonely malay girl, and when malay youth rushed to help her, these pervert suddenly apologized and runaway, look look, they never had the guts to fight the malays if the number are equal and without any weapon,
Of course when they are in larger number (50 plus against a few adult malay male – the rest are children) and armed with al sort of crude weapon against unarmed malays ( except kitchen knife). This cowards suddenly become brave.
angry malay-muslims,
will appreciate if next time you can post the url source for reference.
this problem is not limited to lunas only. in fact, few other areas where indians (especially displaced from rural/estate areas) are having same problem. we don’t read about this problems in more affluent areas. Now, question is, can we do a profiling or stereotyping saying all indians are like this? i think not. Even you have said “indian gangsters” are doing the above. They exist in lunas, in sentul, in puchong, kulai, port klang, kapar etc. you can see during Thaipusam, majority if the indian (hindus) attend prayers in Batu Caves without any problem. but there will always be that small group of troublemakers who don’t respect religion, community and basically anyone else.
if you take the same indian gangsters from lunas, and put them in kapar or taman sentosa, i think you can find them doing similar crime against other indians. of course, when confronted they will run away, as you said cowards. gangsters and bullies only exist when they have the numbers. when faced with bigger group, they will disappear.
i also think that the displaced indians have become fertile ground for the “big shots” to be used as henchmen (kaki pukul). so, these gangsters feel protected to do as they like because got link with influential people who can settle with authorities.
together with lack of education, lack of employment, lack of self-esteem, poverty, association with wrong group, alcohol/drug influence, tamil movie influence (yes, i believe its does affect some people), wrong guidance by leaders, this contributes to the youths becoming gangsters or criminals. in fact, not only indian youths, you take any such youth from those background and put them in such condition, chances are high to become a criminal or gangster.
i will ask why the police didn’t catch many of the rioters. how can only manage to catch 4 of them?
as for bail and court case and all, the law is like that. if catch someone, must have strong evidence, good lawyers and good judge. if not, the law can be misused.
Hello to All,
First all, i just can understand why people like to twisting a problem to racist matter. Did it mean that someone killed by any other race supposed to be blame the whole race? If yes then in canny ong case, the whole malays should be punished. In sosilawati,, the whole indians should be blame. But at the end, do you think what will happened? Can u guys just imagine or not what will be happeneing? The most terrified disaster like what happened in 13th May will be hounted again. Do think by that time you feel safe to be out there or letting your beloved one to go out? Let me tell you, there is certain idiots on every races Malays, Indian, Chinese, and etc.But at the same time, there are also good kind hearted people in that races.
Believe or not, im writting these comments with my frens which stands an indian, chinese and myself as malay and also a sikh.
Summary, punished those who is doing the crime, not the whole races. Show no mercy to those idiots who commit the crimes only.
In general all malays are a very jealous lot. they envy other races becuz of their wealth but then they dont realised how hard we work to achieve our wealth. the malays are envious other races for the positions they hold in business but then they dont realised how hard we study to become what we are today. the malays only depend on handouts from the goverment so what do you expect, they become lazy and unmotivated. they just want things all done for them and that is why they will never be on par with the chinese or indians, period. i rest my case
hi sonny,
i don’t agree with the generalisation because i have malay friends and they are not as you mentioned. i think laziness occurs across the board, and mainly is due to the environment. maybe some of the malay community may be more relaxed due to working in civil service or living in suburban or rural areas where life is more slow moving.
Note that other races are not made of rich people. We have plenty of poor indians, east malaysians and even poor chinese.
MP: edited.
hi poobalan
i just read on the internet today that another malay guy by the name of hamim husin who is a national civics bureau deputy director used derogatory remarks against chinese and indians and as usual no action has been taken against him.if this isnt biased by the govt then i dont know what is. its fine for the malays to say anything offensive towards other races but the moment we say something against them all hell break loose with the dpm or the home minister asking the authorities to take immediate action. i am really sick of them. if it wasnt for the chinese and indians who contribute so much towards the country wealth and growth all these malays will be living in huts instead of sribing in big flashy cars and living in posh bungalows. what a mob of ungrateful race. i hope poobalan you publish my comments as i am not afraid of being investigated by them.
MP: edited.
to sonny,
yea we are jelous, and lazy people and expecting handoput from goverment; so what,
did we bother indian you, did we harm you physically, did we steal from you, did we RAPE woman from your community? and certainly we never kill peple and burn them mercilessly, I live in KL and PERLIS, there are small indian community within my area but we never disturb them.
Success of indian?? what kind of indian? those gangster in estate?
Than who is Datuk sosilawati and her other 3 victims,
was they also lazy people and expecting handout and should be murdered like that?
one thing you say absolutely right, u dont have to be afraid to be investigated by the police, because Hishamuddin will only give STERN WARNING,
but i want to tell u one thing, THERE IS A Growing number in Malays communtiy (the number still grow) who feel that the only solution for this indian gangsterism menace and to avenge the blood of datuk sosilawati is something like KAMPUNG MEDAN INCIDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So take this as warning ,
Zul,
just curious, how do the “growing number” plan to identify the bad indian guys (gangsters) and do a “kampung medan” incident? or you think just go around in a mob and chop off every indian guy you meet? hope you can clarify this vigilante scheme (if i may call it that).
what’s your advice on tackling mat rempit problem? should we employ similar strategy and group together as a mob to attack mat rempits, since the authorities also don’t seem to be able to control this menace? i’m sure there are plenty of growing number of people unhappy with mat rempits too. surely easy to get a big group of manpower.
note: i’m not encouraging violence or taking up law into own hand, but its an academic question out of curiosity.
This comment is to mr poobalan
First of all i would like to apologize for the harsh and threatening word (mentioning kampung medan incident) that i use to reply sonny as i was upset for his insulting comment against my coommunity. However when i read all comments above and look how you maintain your coolness even though a few person from my community attack your race using rude word, its shows a quality that should be learned,
However my genuine concern is for how long this indian gangsterism menace would continue to plague our society, it seems nonstop, the police werent unable to check it (not because they cannot do it but surely due to political pressure),
As you say this indian gangsterism always have their godfather (big possibilites they political leader from both side of political divide). The incident in kulim for example, it is widely rumoured by many people that gobala krishna is behind these indian thugs.
When these gangster were charged in court of law, there always lawyers (who happend to be from same community with them)would defend them or make sure they got lighter punishment. When they are out of jail, they are going to do it again.
Unfortunately a large number of their victims come from my communtiy (recipe for racial riot).
Would you do a favour mr poobalan, could you ask these indian defends lawyer NOT to defend any gagster or thugs if its proved they are main culprit in any crime scene, Just let the court punish them,
Ine more thing, if there any indian criminal were killed in shootout with police, could you ask the indian not to make fuss about it,
at least the police are doing good thing for india community – by getting rid of all criminal elements and outlaws from their communtiy.
I my self doesnt want any racial violence or riot in this country, but im afraid if this provoking actions from indian thugs (that you dont belong to) continue, malay passion could be inflamed, with bad elements from malay community itself (like mat rempist and malay thugs which i dont belong to), sooner or later there will be a day of reckoning among these two communtiy, at that time its useless to talk about harmony as all us need some one to attached too.
have a nice day
hi again zul,
no prob about your comments as i feel there’s always some good things to be learnt. if we don’t read various opinions and think about it, we will never grow to be better. bad hats and irrational fellows exists in all communities. we have to engage them and try clear the misconception. i don’t believe in “talking behind closed doors” as it merely hides the problem and doesn’t really solve anything.
long time ago, there were not much news of indian gangsters. i think this problem started in late 80s and flourish until now. perhaps some of our IPTA can do some in-depth study on why this change happened. long time ago, gangsterism were linked to chinese underworld, but now, not much news on them (maybe all gone hi-tech or into commercial crimes). as i mentioned earlier, the indian gangsterism may be due to media, political influence/protection, lack of opportunities etc.
personally, i don’t have much respect for politicians, except maybe a handful of them. its not easy to be politician and morever to be a good politician. our politician standards have become very low and disgrace to our country. mention any politician name, and you usually can hear some scandal or negative story about them.
as for lawyers, well, i think many of the criminal lawyers are indians. not many lawyers from other races handling such cases. so, going by probability, the chance of you hiring an indian as a criminal defense lawyer is much higher. you see, its just maths, nothing racial. same goes for the victims, since statistically, the indian population are scattered and only few towns have majority indian population. so, statistically, the chance of a malay to be victim is higher (at least 50++% of peninsular malaysian population are ethnic malays).
hmm..me advice lawyers? LOL, i don’t think they will be bothered because for them its a job, their rice bowl. If lawyers have to follow their conscience, i think they have to change careers! Anyway, for your info Zul, if the lawyer doesn’t want to represent a client, the court MUST appoint a lawyer to do so. In other words, there’s no such thing as punishing the accused without a legal representation. That’s how justice works. Even mentioned in many religion’s holy books that the accused must also be given a chance to defend himself/herself.
for the indian criminals, again, remember its about being an “accused”, whereby they are not proven guilty. unless of course the police tries to catch someone and the guy shoots/attacks the police, surely the police can shoot in self-defence. While i agree that we must get rid of the bad elements in community, going around shooting them down in the name of “police” is not the right way. It will only breed more anger and create more criminals. the pressure groups will also make use of this to protest against police.
What we need is to kill the root of the problem. get rid of the big bosses, not just catch the small fish. the police must work hard to get evidence on the godfathers and big bosses and ensure the case is failproof. use latest technology and focus on links with drug syndicates, underworld gangs etc. When we just catch car thieves or small time robbers, doesn’t solve anything because another group of “followers” will be recruited to replace the dead/jailed ones.
on the community part, some indian NGOs are doing programs to try save teenagers and youths from being influenced by such bad elements. however, its still not enough. there’s too many bad influences around.
as for lawyers, well, i think many of the criminal lawyers are indians. not many lawyers from other races handling such cases. so, going by probability, the chance of you hiring an indian as a criminal defense lawyer is much higher. you see, its just maths, nothing racial. same goes for the victims, since statistically, the indian population are scattered and only few towns have majority indian population. so, statistically, the chance of a malay to be victim is higher (at least 50++% of peninsular malaysian population are ethnic malays).
Who wants to believe this statement mr poobalan, no malay will believe this kind of statement, as one of the commentators by name sofwan wirte earlier, if there is inter racial crime occured, racial issue will occured (at least from victm’s community), you cannot compared to intraracial crime, if oyu want to talk indian on indain crime, there are also a lot of malay on malay crimne, but they are not going to become big issue because they predator and his pray were from same communtiy,
You see there is one case in ulu kinta perak, a malay owner of a farm being murdered mercilessly by indian gangster just because he chased away cow that belong to the indian from eating his crops,
another case in taman keladi sp kedah, indian thugs try to attack and kill a malay resident with parangs, u know what is the reasons,- because the malay told them not to ride motorcycle in high speed in front of his house-. Thanks God that malay is a martial art exponent, so he use his skill to repel attack from this culprit, until his neighbor rush to help him, and as usual those rajnikant wannabe ran away like coward when they see several malays who also armed with sharp weapons come to confront them.
Theres a case in prai, where a malay taxi driver told a few indian not to harrassed a few indonesian female worker, what this indian do is bring his gang with parang and kill that poor taxi driver.
So mr poobalan, is this also math, or a deep hatred towards muslim-malay that is ingrained in mind of young tamil in this country especially those estate gangsters.
So should the malays also response in the same manner too??
zul,
one of the four lawyers defending the accused is a malay. does this mean that racism exists since initial thought is that only indian lawyer would defend the indian criminal. why not do a research based on newspapers on criminal case and see if its true that indian lawyers represent only indian criminals? can refer to last 1 years cases. or maybe you’ll find out that many indian lawyers represent all races of criminals because its their job/career.
i think there’s nothing wrong about my statement, and i don’t see why the malay won’t believe it. the malays i meet never seem to indicate to me about this being a racist crime, nor do they stare at me or stay away from me. we still work together, go raya open house together. or is it they are just being polite or i’m mixing with the wrong malays?
i don’t agree that intra-racial crime is less “big issue” compared to inter-racial crime. unless its a hate crime. for me, a crime is a crime regardless who is the victim. to think that a crime is only big issue if the perpetrator is different race from the victim is something shocking. its shows the level of thinking or mentality which is very low because we take the crime as some sort of entertainment factor since only become sensationalised if different races involved. remember the case where the youth chopped of his father’s head and killed few family members or mona fandey case. isn’t that a shocking crime? just because the suspect and victim is malay, it doesn’t make me think, its a “smaller” crime. and seriously, i can’t imagine anyone can think like that!
today’s news: 16 year old girl found naked and dead in teluk intan. suspected raped and murdered. now, what comes to our mind? do we think “melayu ke? cina ke? india ke?” or do we think “what a horrible crime!”? do we stoop so low until assign importance of crime according to the race of the victim and/or the accused? if we do that, then i think need to seek medical help. better find a psychiatrist.
in your examples of the crimes, yes i think its maths (an incident that could have happened to anyone. the cab driver could have been a chinese, the farm owner could have been an indian). look at the places of the crime – all are areas with larger population of indians, which means there’s bound to be a group of black sheep to cause nuisance for everyone. can you imagine or find such a crime in area like jeli, putrajaya, TTDI, shah alam section 1 to 12, nilai, bangi, kg baru, etc. where indian group attack a malay? if, as you say, there’s deep hatred, wouldn’t such crime happen in all places? wouldn’t the statistics show that many cases perpetrator is indian and victim is malay?
you mentioned deep hatred. why does this deep hatred exist, if it does? people don’t simply have hatred for no reason, right?
i think anyone who response in same manner as not thinking properly and are criminals because they are going to do the same as the gangsters. how are you going to identify the gangsters? either you are one or you employ other gangsters to respond. indirectly or directly, you are creating more crime. lets look at this case: you see one indian uncle drinking beer in chinese restaurant or see some indian boys having out at the football field. do you label them as gangsters since being drunk or being a group and doing nothing? [note: when i say “you”, not you literally, but in general].
back to the case: are all the victims in Banting murders of one race? can it be proven that the murderers purposely planned/targeted victim from other race? what is the motive of the murder? if after analysing these questions, you still think that its a hate crime that targeted the malay, then i can’t say anything more. Have to give up 🙂
MP
Though I am an Indian but I have always been sick of the gangsterism and thuggish attitude of our community.
When Kugan died, the whole Indian community rose in anger. Some of the comments made were extreme, to say the least.
The clowns of Hindraf on the other hand, make provocative statements every other day. Not only in Malaysia but internationally.
But for you and many other Indians, such incidents do not sound provocative or racist. However, when the tables are turned, you guys sing a different tune. Now they say the issue being racialised.
I didnt see you demanding not to make the issue an ethnic one when Kugan died or illegal temples being demolished.
MP, fairness must flow both ways. As an Indian I am embarassed and ashamed of the behaviour of our community. But many of us, you included, tend to play the Ostrich. You guys defend criminals and thugs like Kugan,Uthaya and others while condemning the police.
Some of the people here have provided instances of violent crimes perpetuated by Indians. I can add to many many more.
Just imagine what would have happened if some Malays had brutally murdered Indians instead. I bet the whole community will be enraged and demanding blood. Hindraf idiots will be demonstrating or even submitting memos to the UN. You will be blogging about it, dissecting the issue in details.
dear killer,
why not you search my blog and see where i mentioned that kugan’s case is racially related? i focused on the newspaper reports which focused on alleged wounds and bruises on the body. i talked about death of a person in custody. alleged criminal because he died before being convicted in court. BTW: FYI, i don’t delete posts which I have written.
As for temple demolition, my focusis on doing things (relocation, negotiation) correctly, the role of the political parties (who are supposed to be the “guardians”), the lack of spirit of discussion, and how temple being demolished are impacting religious feelings. of course its religious issue because Hindu temples affect Hindus. But in the murders, the victims are not only Indians. There are Malays too.
i believe in giving credit where due. the police force has both good guys and bad guys. i’m sure you know that.
i don’t agree with hindraf on some of the things they do. same as i don’t agree with the police, mic, dap, and nearly everyone else. no one is perfect. i don’t pick sides permanently.
did i say violent crimes are not done by indians? i also listed few crimes la 🙂 the focus of the article is “not turning the Banting murders into racial crime”. i also can list crimes done by Indians. but, is it a hate crime? do you find any such criminals who purposely target malays or chinese? can give us that list?
if some Malays had killed some indians, i would still look at it as a crime. Not a hate crime, unless proven that the murderer purposely targeted the indian victim due to the race. Hindraf want to demo or send memo, up to them. Yes, i’ll blog about it, but as a crime.
i think you missed the picture here.
hi all, as a malay, im quite saddened by what happened.. there is no cause for racial tensions.. let the courts decide.. no need to fight between malays and indians.. we are all malaysians.. pls remember that.. lets all base back to our religions. our religions condem violence.. take care all..