Subscribe in a reader | Subscribe by Email finally, something that appeared on mainstream media (the NST) about the memorandum by HINDRAF. Just some hot air and no facts as usual 🙂
Samy Vellu hits back at Hindu Rights Action Force
BERNAMA
source
try H E R E
PUTRAJAYA, FRI:
MIC president Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu today launched a stinging attack against a non-governmental organisation, the Hindu Rights Action Force (HINDRAF), which claimed that the Barisan Nasional (BN) government had done little to address the woes of the Malaysian Indian community over the last 50 years.
“I must state here that if there is anything that affects the Indian community, the MIC will be there to fight it out even when we are partners of the Barisan Nasional. To me, I have never remained idle and I don’t waste time,” Samy Vellu, who is also Works Minister, told Bernama today.
The MIC supremo was asked to comment on a 18-point memorandum by HINDRAF, which was handed to the Prime Minister’s office last Sunday by the organisation’s chairman P. Waytha Moorthy, secretary V.K Regu and its legal adviser P. Uthayakumar.
Apart from stating that the Indian community was marginalised by the BN government, in the memorandum, HINDRAF also wanted an end to special privileges given to Malays. The memorandum also took a dig at Umno asking the largest political party in the country to “stop playing politics” through the “mandore” (supervisor) system by dishing out aid to the Indian community on a piecemeal basis.
umanan,i called VIP 9 months ago for a loan…he passed my case to another VIP..he dragged me for 7 months and now he threatening me to post my details in the newspaper..i just got fed up and let go my intention to get a loan la..nobody want to give loan la..only counselling is available…Umana if serious want to know about this..give me ur email
if still want to ask for loan he will publish all details in newspaper and Ask Public donation…this is his threat to me just 2 days ago..
i have all the proof of sms he sent to me
pablo, even without any proof…that’s crystal clear for one to know what MIC is capable of…they r there for their agendas….
I’ve heard stories from some of the Indians who went to their office to seek help that they were treated harshly…ur note is not surprising…
It seems u hv to be thick skin to work for MIC chief too…
I’m not sure if with or without MIC, things wd just the same…
MP: Ok, thanks for the info, I’ll try to get a copy of it. If you provide idea where to get, pls drop a personal mail. As for the photos, I’m still asking around.
Dear Poobalan
Remember the Batu Caves incident we talked about ? Well please go and buy a HINDRAF VCD on that incident and view it. Then u will understand how “peaceful” these idiots were. The actual story on what happened at Batu Caves can be learned from there. Though it was heavily edited, you can see for yourself what had happened.
You were wrong about people going there to “rest”. The HINDRAF clowns were making speeches for hours in agitating people. They were raising the emotion of people ahead of the rally at Ampang. You want to know why they gathered at Batu Caves ? They know the police won’t come and arrest them within the temple compound, that’s why.
You said the police locked these people up. View the VCD and see who locked the gates. You say these people never throw stones. Watch the VCD. You say these people never provoked the police ? Watch and listen the extreme vulgar words that the so-called peace-lovers used.
You say the police were violent ? See the video and view how these ppl provoked police but the FRU remained calm. Watch that idiot Kalaivanan provoking the police and agitating the crowd.
You see all these evidence are from HINDRAF’s own VCD though it was heavily edited to hide many other criminal acts done by these thugs.
Anyway I am still waiting for your “independent” pictures of people getting beaten. Funny that in the video there are so many people using camera phones and digicams but none managed to capture police beating people.
MIC is the cause of the indian greviances here. MIC LEADERSHIP MUST BE REMOVED BY ALL MEANS & COSTS. It’s left to us indians to pressure these scoundrels to surrender the party to capable indians. Pls do note vote BN anymore. True indians will support Hindraf! ”Vaazhga tamil vazharga thamilargal”
Kalairaj & the rest
Don’t blame MIC for your failures. It is easy to blame MIC or Malays or Chinese for your failures but much harder to take responsibility for your own actions. That’s why a lot of people still admire our Health Minister despite the scandal.
If not for MIC you would not even have Malaysian citizenship but remain either as a PATI (illegal immigrant)or would have been shipped back to your dear ol’ Oorhu (India).
Remember it took an unparralled act of kindness from the Malays to grant us citizenship. Don’t talk about the sacrifices that Indians made. All of our forefathers were here not out of kindness but for monetary reasons. We were no different from the Indons or Bangla now. Would you agree to grant citizenship to these foreigners just because they have contributed to the nation building ?
HINDRAF and you talk about Reid Commission. First of all you clowns don’t even understand our own history. Were you sleeping during history lessons ?
Tell me which country on the world and in the entire human history had agreed to grant citizenship to foreigners numbering millions.
The Malays made such a big sacrifice in return for certain benefits which our forefathers agreed to. And now you guys cursing the Malays and accusing them of genocide and terrorism.
It is unfair and stupid to blame MIC for Indians’ problems and if anyone feel MIC has done nothing benefical, please debate with any MIC leaders in an open forum and you will get torn to pieces. Even a non-member like me can see the MIC’s contribution.
Those Indians who had succeed are those refused take any excuses and were determined to get ahead despite the challenges they faced. If you keep blaming others you will remain where you are today, forever.
Finally those morons who carried out funeral rites for Samy Vellu and 2nd marriage for his wife, your actions are a disgrace to the community. Remember, you might escape punishment today but the sins you have committed will catch up with you sooner or later.
MP: Noted, thanks. I shall try to get it.
Poobalan
The VCD is called Trajedi di Batu Caves dan Jalan Ampang. This VCD is for sales in any functions organized by the HINDRAF thugs.
Anyway, please watch it and you will realise how HINDRAF and its supporters had mislead the rest. I guarantee you that you will get a shock when watching the VCD on how they tried to provoke the police and then lied about the entire episode. The VCD has been heavily edited so there are some parts unclear but we can easily guess what had happened at that time.
Also a word of caution, do not watch it with family members as it shld be classified as 18SX/SG. The language used was very obscene.
Nona 640 : Can you please explain why you are cursing Samy Vellu in such a cruel manner ? What had he done to deserve such a curse ? You have any evidence to back up ?
Remember, our holy books vedas say that when you curse an innocent person, the curses will come back to you. So if you are to meet with bad luck in the coming days or weeks, remember to recall the reasons for it.
So killer, what’s ur take finally….jz bcoz the govt has given Indians the right to live as citizens in Malaysia, let the temples be demolished at the council’s will and let the injustice previal acceptably in front of your very own eyes. Of course, u will not b able to fight against everything everytime, but at least the brain shd be doing the right calculation in assessing the situation..whether it’s something acceptable or unacceptable.. I reckon u hv an inferior feeling in yourself…Hindraf is challenging with data..why not professionals challenge them with data and give a fair trail instead..that’s how constructive members deal with problems..then even the logical Indians know what they’re fighting for and who they shd support..
Indirectly, Hindraf has opened the eyes of many ppl including the govt…MIC may even take some of the credit on Hindraf behalf..
Being a logical person urself, have you thought why wd so many get in disagreement with MIC or MIC chief???? are these ppl stupid idiots?..Probably not..then why?… think abt it..of course I agree we shd not use vulgar world or whatsoever to address ppl…
btw, you dun even need the verses from veda to explain this..a logical mind within would do.
Some may even put MIC chief beyond Gandhi or Abdul Kalam..is that warranted for..u ask yourself…ppl may wanna hear from him starting with Maika holding shares…
Umanan
Let’s talk facts and not fiction. Leave emotions.
Fact 1 : Temple demolitions : No legal temple was ever demolished in Malaysia.
Talk to people in India and they will tell you that temples are being torn down on daily basic across India too. Off course,these are illegally built structures.
The temples that are demolished in Malaysia are exactly for the same reasons, these are illegal places of worship.No country in the world would allow you to build places of worship in someone else’s land.
Perhaps Tamils should ask why only Hindu temples are affected and not Buddhist and Sikh ones. Also I never heard of churches being demolished.
Accept the fact that there are far too many temples in the country (more than 25k) and these are too big a number for us a small community to take care and manage it well.
Many of these are temples are illegaly erected. You can say these are pre-Merdeka or even pre-Portugese structures. Whatever the reasons,in most cases these temples are just abandoned when the people move away.
In my experiences, many of these buildings are not old temples built decades ago but new ones built without any permits or regards to the law or land ownership. This happens when there is a new housing area containing Indians.
A good example would be the Bukit Tinggi area in Klang. You can see many small temples within meters of each other. Most of these temples are just makeshift structures.
What puzzles me is that building a temple is such a complex matter in Hinduism. There are thousand of “sanggiam” you need to follow to build one. But our “maggie mee” temples nowadays can be constructed within a day, without any regards to vedas or other scriptures. To me this is an affront to our religion.
If you look at cases where temples were demolished in a rational way, none of the cases can stand in a court of law as we had zero rights. Usually notice after notice been issued but the residents and temple committee just ignore them in order to extract compensation from the land developer or in recent times, to make publicity out of the incident.
I agree that the authorities should exercise restraint and show sensitivity in demolishing temples. But put yourself in Khir Toyo’s or local authorities position. How long would you want to give them ? 1 year, 2 years, 10 years ? The Padang Jawa temple was told to move since 2005 and was issued court order. In fact alternative land was provided and even money was given to relocate the temple. But somehow the temple committe and residents refused to move. What would you do in MPSA’s situation ?
I used to get upset when a temple get demolished but after getting involved in a few cases, I realised my stupidity. In 10 out of 10 cases it is our fault.
So you might ask me what’s my solution. Ok, let me ask you. Can you tell me one place in Malaysia where Hindus lack a proper place of worship ? We certainly have more than enough temples. The question is do we use them or take care of them ? On the contrast, look at Sikh temples and Churches, see how well they are being maintained and taken care of.
Fact No 2: Indian rights
I am not sure what rights HINDRAF is talking about. What rights that were taken from us ?
I would agree if you claim were are victims of discriminatory policies (ie NEP).But then the Chinese and other non-bumis have the same problems but they are better off than us. So what do you think the problem is ?
You can say what you want about the NEP but this was a part of the social contract that our forefathers agreed to in exchange of citizenship and other benefits. But personally the restrictions imposed by the NEP has been overstated. Certainly looking at the number of successful Indians (I am one of them) the NEP has not stopped the hardworking ones from coming up in life. I am a Tamil school graduate (from one of the most interior estates) but I never had a problem getting a place in public uni or later climb the corporate ladder. I am certainly not a politician or had Samy Vellu’s support for my success. In fact I would be insulted if I needed to use political connections to get something done. I am certainly not the only one, there are thousands.
Let me tell you something. Had not for MIC/Samy Vellu, less than 10% of Indians would get uni places. Had we were made to compete with the Chinese on merit, 90% of the Indians would not get a public uni place.I am not too proud to admit that I gained a place in uni thru the Indian quota. Of course, thanks to our good friends in DAP and some Indians too, now meritocracy is being practised at public unis. This has resulted in the drop of Indians undergrads. But I know MIC has been working behind the scene to work out a deal with MOE/MOHE. They also sponsoring thousands of Indian students in local private and overseas unis.
Fact no 3 : Govt support for Indians
I heard that moron Kalaivanar talk about Indians having to beg to build Tamil schools.
Let me ask you, how many Tamils schools were built with our own money ? Who pays the teachers’ salary and the constructions of Tamil schools ? You think we Indians supporting Tamil schools ? At most we only help in building extra classes or additional buildings.
Let me also ask you, outside of India, how many countries have Indian schools and temples, TV channels and radio stations in Tamil ? How many countries provide national holidays for Deepavalli and Thaipusam ?
With all these help, yet you guys accuse the govt and MIC of doing nothing ?
Fact No 4 : Indian socio economic condition
To those we say the Indians are the poorest community in Malaysia, I say ” BULLSHIT”.
Have you been to Kelantan and Sabah ? Have you seen some remote villages in Kedah or even in the Kuala Selangor kampungs ?
The fact is on the overall Indians are only 2nd to the Chinese. You see the Malays driving big cars and having big bungalows. But these are just a small % of the total.
A simple experiement would help. Go to a high-end shopping center and observe. How many are Malays and how many are other races. I would say that even though the Chinese are only 25% of the population, they often make up 75% of the shoppers.
But go to a low/mid-end shopping mall (say Kamdar / Mydin / Pertama Complex) and you will see mostly Malays.
Observe the number of Indians too and this would give you a very good indication of the economic condition of the different races in Malaysia without the need of official stats.
Also observe a Hindu temple and compare that with the situation 5 or 10 years ago. You will see many more cars (many of them foreign made, new cars) nowadays. But if you recall the situation 5 to 10 years ago, it would have been motobikes and old cars.
No doubt there are a number of Indians who live poorly but there are more poor people among the Malays, Ibans, Kadazans, Dusuns, Muruts, etc.
Some Indians are poor becoz they are the 1st generation out of estates. But this is the transition stage and if they focus on education of their kids they will escape the chains of poverty. But if they keep to tamil serials, movies and alcohol, they will stay where they are now for the next 100 years.
Also look at Singaporean Indians (the original ones not the recent imports from India). Despite not having to face the NEP, they are nowhere near the Chinese. In fact they are no better than the Malaysian Indians (I would say they are worse off, but that’s another story).
Finally about AIMST. How did MIC build a university worth $ 580 Million ? How much did Malaysian Indians contributed ? Think about it…
i agreed with with killer, u talked based on fact not like umanan, narrow minded only talked about marginization. even i’m not study high but i’m not think that narrow. but only dono how to express in words.
Killer,
If a person decided to buy the holy book Quran and Bible but later finds them not useful, can he simply burn them just becoz he has bought them with his money?.Literally, yes as he owns the book..Sentimentally no becoz u r just an user & if u don’t know how to safeguard the holiness residing in the book, u shd probably be charged as it’s sensitive.
I see it’s the same with the temples issue..u may build a temple illegally, but then u shd charge the owner in court and carry out the proceedings accordingly to law…demolishing dieties as opposed to demolishing builings is definitely against the first verse of our Rukunegara regardless, unless u’ve no value for the dieties in those temples jz bcoz it was built by irresponsible party..Infact, it’s to resolve this kind of things amicably that we need reps. from an Indian party….it “sounds” like they wanna do things diligently now if u hv read in the papers abt temples listing etc…
I’m not sure where u get the data that one temple is demolished each day in India?
I agree with u that non-Bumis are successful regardless, majority dun need political party/politicians help…but why not just call the university entry system as something else other than meritocracy..if it’s a pure merit based system, dun be surprised if Indians make up 10% of them. Now, the non-Bumi students are sceptical as their chances cld be very slim despite good STPM results..so they wd rather forego Form6. I dun see why we shd feel inferior that Indians are getting into university just bcoz of quota?..of course if it’s a pure merit system, majority wd be Chinese but isn’t that the fact that one shd accept, make that an inspiration and work hard..as that’s how community moves up. Currently, the entry system is totally biased..and it’s not good for those students entering thru “merit” as well..since u won’t be able to cope with the best in class.
One thing being a leader as opposed to a subordinate is that you’ve to answer all the critics constructively with data. I dun think anyone is saying govt/MIC has done nothing. MIC “agreed” to those critics and basically, you wd see the reactions almost daily in the newspapers..this is to be done..that’s to be done etc etc..or maybe it’s just politically motivated…god knows. If MIC has done enof, why not just declare to all everything that cld be done for Indians are already done or progressing..”DON’T ASK FOR ANYTHING ANYMORE”….why didn’t we see such statements from the MIC chief?
I echo your point that Indians are not the poorest in Malaysia..and again, am not sure who said so? For balanced development, the govt shd/must look into Kelantan/Sabah/Sarawak….
Chong, broad thinker wd have assessed why there was such a fuss against the “great” MIC. They wd have asked to be transparent in all their undertakings including explanation on how Maika holding shares were handled and prove Hindraf wrong in all their proceedings. Broad minded ppl wd also think why is there such a support for Hindraf or for their motions? As mentioned by killer, Indians are not living poorly in Malaysia and the support comes from such people, why is that so?. Broad minded ppl wd have asked the govt. to release the 5 and charge them in court..not shutting them down thru ISA..prove them wrong.Even then, AG make take charge and “intimidate” the judge to his favour..and possibly make it a “fair” trial..”broad” minded ppl like you can possibly question this.
“Broad minded” wd be someone like you who fails to assess other people’s situation at all as long as your business runs ok.
It’s quite evident from govt’s move to East Coast Development plan that “Kelantan, you’ll get the dev. if you vote for BN”…that’s how it sounded from today’s paper….
umanan, from your posting no 718, finally u realized what BN does. it comes from your words, not mine. please refer to my posting no 588. change the rule of the country. we do what we can do, but not stupid things until we go to ISA. if we go to ISA, it’s something like we are live in the bottle. only can see, but nothing we can do to help. understand?finally this forum gonna to be end. only u, killer and myself left. i presume this issue just created by some political guy and make used of HINDRAF as a platform. if u see, not many opposition give a respond on this issue. if u guys really want to proceed, go ahead. jangan hangat-hangat tahi ayam.
Umanan
Perhaps you are confused. Rukun Negara’s First Principle is “Believe In God” and NOT ” Build Temples Everywhere We Want To”.
I said it before and I say it again, the authorities need to be sensitive in matters of religion. But the need to destroy these illegal temples would not arise if we had removed these deities and temples when were were given notice to move. By refusing to move, we Hindus have greater responsibility in knowingly allowing people to desecrate these temples.
In many cases, only the temples are demolished and not deities. There are so many lies that had been spread by HINDRAF on this issue that people have a very wrong idea on what are the real cause and what had actually transpired.
Let’s take the case of Padang Jawa. Why didn’t these Hindus move the temple despite given land and money ? Why didn’t HINDRAF help the residents in relocating the temple but only wanted to confront the authorities who are only carrying out lawful actions ? The temple would not been destroyed had the Hindus acted in a responsible manner. Instead they wanted to politicise the issue and let the temple do down. To me this is a big sin indeed.
Bro, I think you need to wake up on the issue of meritocracy for public unis. You obviously do not understand the what’s happening in the unis. Off course the system is not full meritocracy but we Indians should NOT ask for full meritocracy as we will lose out as we have been since the new system in place. In fact Indians are the biggest losers under the new system. Look at the list of top scorers every year in SPM/PMR/STPM. The Indians are still behind the Chinese and Malays.
As for MIC, I think people must wake up to the fact that the party is in BN and its hands are tied in many issues.
Do you think MIC doesn’t know the problems facing the Indian community or did not ask the govt ? I am sure they did but they did not get all they wanted. In fact many issues like full aid for Tamil schools, land for temples, uni places, etc are not fully met but I believe MIC is still fighting.
My belief is that we need a third force like NGOs to make stronger demands for these request. I am sure MIC will also support these request from behind the scene. In fact I would have supported HINDRAF myself had they submitted a memorandum or started a signature campaign.
However, HINDRAF took an extreme racial/religious stance and make so many sensitive and offensive allegations against the Malays and UNMO that no way any UMNO leaders would even talk to these people or listen to what they say.
Had they couched these requests in more acceptable language and appealed to the govt asking for help I think it would have helped. The important thing that this initiative must be independent of MIC and must be polite but firm. Message must be help us and we will support you, but turn us down and we will vote the Opposition.
Instead, HINDRAF had opted to confront and embarass the govt by making it an international issue. By threatening violence and turning into a religious war, they wasted a golden opportunity.
You might not realise it but their action had created a friction between Malays and Indians. Those Malays who were sympathetic to our cause before are now look at us as a community of gangsters and disloyal people.
Talk to Indian businessmen who have Malay customers and they will tell you that the Malays now shun the Indian owned business after the 25th Nov rally.
Also, imagine what would have happened if some drunk Indians in that rally attacked Malays while they were praying. ( I did see some drunk youths with beer bottles in that rally).This is entirely possible given the fiery and highly charged, racially sensitive speeches made by HINDRAF leaders prior to the rally. The Indians would have been slaughtered and we would really end up like Tamils in Sri Lanka.
Worse of all, the guys carried Gandhi’s and QE2’s pictures. You know what the Malays say ? They say we are disloyal. Why didn’t these people carry the King’s photo or even our Father of Independent Tunku’s photos ? Why submit memo to QE2 ? Who is she ? Why not OUR OWN KING ? To me this is a traitorous act.
Umanan
Let me answer your questions to chong.
1. Why such support for HINDRAF ? Because Indians are emotional and NOT rational people.Indians love to hear that their failure is caused by someone else (ie MIC) rather than they themselves. Well, they can blame MIC and vote the Opposition and kill the MIC. But will this solve the problem ? They even can vote HINDRAF thugs to the parliment. Can these goondas help solve the issues ? Dream on bro.
2. Why ISA ? Well, I would have loved to have the govt charge these morons and prove their accusations wrong and expose their lies. But the reason why the govt used ISA is to prevent the Malays to react and potentially prevent a racial bloodbath. Remember Kg Medan and Kg Rawa ? The Indians used violence aginst Malays thinking they are tough but ended up getting burned badly. You might not know this but many of those Muslims who attacked Indians at Kg Medan came from Kelantan and Kedah (PAS supporters). In fact even KMM (Al Qaeda’s wing) was involved toward the end.
3. Why AG was involved ? Simple, AG gets involved when the case is of national importance. The govt viewed this as a serious threat to nation as it could lead to racial clashes. In any case there is no law to say when and which case the AG should get involved. There is no need for him to get involved in the Mongolian girl’s murder as it was hardly a security or time-sensitive issue.
pls gus’a dont support for mic gathering on 20th january at stadium badmintaon cheras, kl. pls inform
to all your friend that u know.
Oh yeah, about temple demolition in india…HINDRAF supporters read carefully…
http://www.hindujagruti.org/news/1880.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/40103082.cms
http://www.rediff.com/news/2003/nov/11inter.htm
http://cities.expressindia.com/fullstory.php?newsid=247110
Actually if you live in India long enough, you will come across such cases almost on daily basis.
And this one in Singapore…where is that Singaporean hero Seelan when this happened ?
http://www.hinduismtoday.com/hpi/2004/11/8.shtml#3
I am suprise to see there is 7% discount for non-bumi for house. WHy this was not being intro last tiem. Can some people that they claim talking facts and has big brains explain this. Iis this just because the voting time has come and most of indians have registed themself? WHy is ALLAH is being stop being used by chirstian? Aren’t that is a universal language? Then ask teh Gov to change the national songs and stop using the word “AMIN” it’s being used by Chirstian as well… Gov is full of bullshit!!!and people who support BN is really stupit!!!
Chong, yes ….equal development for the nation is key regardless if you win or lose in Kelantan..that’s what professionals will profess..however no point talking on theories..
There needs to be a process to handle each thing whenever something is sensitive regardless! Of course, Indians have to have the first initiative to ensure our dieties are legally placed but for those who don’t as some of them have shown, don’t we have a process to handle this properly?? It shdn’t be handled similar to any bulidings where the owner is summoned each time jz bcoz they own the temple, Hindu Sangam or some organizations of that kind shd get involved/be informed and there needs to be a process with demolition as the very final item..(of course with dieties removed)..there’re clear cut pix showing how authorities smashed/demolished the dieties before when u shdn’t even touch it.
Abt the university entry, let’s make the STPM a single entrance exam!!..you seem to be very inferior that Indians wd not make it with this fair system? let it be if that’s the case and that’ll ensure they work even harder..isn’t that what self sufficient Indians like u who dun expect any kind of help shd do? btw..I’ve been to uni myself, probably wd hv entered with/without quota and let’s not demotivate ourselves that we’re far far behind..of course Chinese wd be in the lead but let’s face the fact..matriculation is a backdoor entry!
Yep, I’m not anti-govt. but some of the actions are truly unacceptable. We can’t be saying after 50 yrs of independence that Malaysians are unable to take the matters legally rite? They were not caught under ISA after 60 days of trial even…some of the “emotional” ones are the BAR council members themselves..
Regardless of the discussion whatsoever, racial integrity is not as great as it’s preached out there..it’s a sad situation but it could get worse in future when hardliners take charge..
Good notes from the website…that sounds more like a materialistic move there for tourism etc…is that the right thing to do..one has to assess the karma involved…but I dun think we shd be showing one bad thing as an example to do anything bad thing..a process is what’s needed…to know which is going wrong where.
The Singapore temple example is a great one!! Responsible action from both parties…that’s exactly what happened in Jawi, Penang as well. The temple is being built there after relocation.
There’re lots of irresponsible Indians out there who may own temples and not bothered abt council’s notice at all. So, the process shd be such that after a month, if there’s no acknowledged reply from the owner whether he accepts the reloaction plan, isolated body like Hindu Sangam shd intravene and decide what shd be done next. Let the isolated party(of course affiliated to govt.) make the decision whether to merge the temple/relocate etc. with concrete plans to the council. In this way, racial tensions can be reduced.
The govt. shd not let irresponsible party to use temple issues for their gain via such process and at the same time, safeguard the temple holiness at the same time.
killer..i guess you are from MIC or somehow related to them..Anyway..best of luck to you
Pablo
Just because I think HINDRAF is a bunch of morons doesn’t make me a MIC member or supporter. It is such a narrowness of thinking that causing Indians to be disunited and unable to challenge the Chinese economically despite having the intelligence, knowledge and opportunities.
Umanan :
I agree with your post 728 about being responsible. But responsibility is a two-way street. In many cases the local councils have been discussing and asking the people to move for years. But they refused and just ignore notices after notices. Padang Jawa temple is a classic example.
You might not know this but the MIC and MHS had been working to register these illegal temples for some time now. But they are being frustrated by the attitude of the temple committes and residents. These residents just refuse to merge or move these illegal temples and I am sure this got to do with money rather than spiritual objectives.
I believe the MIC and MHS had been working at both Federal and state levels to come up with a working mechanism on how to handle this issue long before HINDRAF came into the scene. But by agigating people rather than educating them and finding a solution, HINDRAF made MIC/MHS’ effort even more difficult. HINDRAF’s action only made harderned the attitude of these illegal temples’ committees.
Remember when we are at fault we need to be tactful and diplomatic in making any requests. When we are legally wrong we cannot organize demos and shout for our rights.
I agree some of the local authorities could have been more patient, but you need to be in their shoes in order to understand their anger and frustration too.
What kind of message we are sending out by building temples in some of the most unsuitable locations like under bridges, road sides, beside monsoon drains, etc. I am often ashamed by the behaviour of our people when questioned by others. You don’t see this irresponsible behavior by the Sikhs, Buddhists or the Christians. In fact per capita we have far more temples than any other races.
And the bahaviour of our people leaves much to be desired. Much of the practices by our people are in fact non-Hindu traditions and are actually cultural. Look at the way we carry out animal sacrifice in temples. For non Hindus it is puzzling as Hinduism basically a non violent and abhor meat-eating.
We celebrate Thiruvillas and other religious functions without a regard to others. We are the only community where the police and FRU presence is compulsory during religious festivals in order to prevent killings.
I remember Kalaivanar speaking angrily about FRU’s presence with chariot and burst out laughing. Why do you think they are there ?
How many times we have seen fights and killings during our festivals. Why only during our functions ?
So folks, think about the points I raised and improve ourselves first before blaming others.
And by killing MIC you only going to kill the community as it is the only Indian based party in the country with the ability to help us.
Some of you had forgotten about Anwar Ibrahim and taken by his sweet words in support of HINDRAF. Funny though this is the same idiot who betrayed the Indians
in the Ijok by-election. This is the same racist moron who instigated the Malays there NOT to vote for BN’s Indian candidate as he is a kafir.
And those people from Penang will recall what he said during the Kg Rawa issue. He threatened Indians by saying that he will stop all bells ringing in Hindu temples in Penang.
So, go ahead vote for PKR. Better still vote for DAP and their meritocracy system so that we will be an even bigger losers.
Crazy Nuke
A word about bumi discount..even with the discount the houses are left unsold. This just goes to show that the bumis are still economically behind us.
As for “Allah” word, that is not the issue here so I have nothing to say.
Killer, agreed with you on irresponsible Indians but really hoping that MIC/Hindu Sangam can work out something now at least that will avoid demolishing dieties especially..members meeting in Batu Caves recently is a very good start..
True, our former DPM is politically motivated..no doubt abt that…
However, it’s always best not to have 2/3 majority by any party for a constructive confrontation on the issues discussed. One great example is the retirement age change to 66 for EC chairman in Parliament recently…sounds really absurd and comical, an amendment to cater an individual!
Umanan
Although the case of EC chairman is beyond the scope of our discussion here, let me still answer you.
Did you read the reason given by the govt ? I really don’t see the reasons behind the fuss made by the Opposition.
It does makes sense. Further it is not wise to get someone totally new as the chairman just a few mths before the GE. I would suggest that you do some independent reading rather than listening to the crap that being out by the Opp politicians.
Another joke is the arrest of activists in the parliment. It was claimed that the police sullied the parliment by doing that. The funny thing is that many people actually buy this idiotic argument.
Where and what law says that the police cannot arrest anyone in the parliment ? In fact the opposite is true, the parliment is a restricted place.
I do think people like Khir Toyo and other CMs/MBs will be more careful but our own idiotic people will never learn the lesson. Enboldned by the actions by HINDRAF they will NOT look this as their responsibility but blame the authorities instead.
I know how hard is has been for MIC and MHS to control these irresponsible elements in preventing new illegal temples and merging old ones.
The govt has to use the “carrot and stick” strategy otherwise Indians will be back to their usual practice.
Actually I think Indians have too many temples…and there should be a ban on new temples unless approved by MIC/MHS. Those who break this ban must be punished.
chong and killer…
thnks for ur feedback and explainatin abt the history of indian in malaysia…
yes we are sleeping during our history class..you know why?
because it only story created to bull shitting our generation..is there any proof that you can forward or share with DATA on the malaysian indian’s history that you claimed our fore father had just been bring to work over here..
its easy to say something but i’t very hard to justify. Can you guys?
if you have any concrete proof OR DATA to shown that HINDRAF is just try to gain the world and indian’s attention pls forward it as we also want to quit from supporting any waste activity,or
we(ALL PURE INDIAN) should consider you guy’s are just TALK like hell of the great only.
i don’t mind you answer my feedback with ur boombasctic language but i will consider that as just a waste if there in no any above request attached.
anyway, i support this HINDRAF 1000% as i know they are not stupid to raised the such claimanation towards gov. I believe they more and more and more aware on the consequences by doing so….
ok, so ,again, pls don’t waste your productivity time by empty conversation…
always talk with proof and DATA…
pls accept my comment with pinch of salt..
byeee.. 🙂
ave nice day,
valge samuthayam…
TO BBK..
1st of all,, glad to here that you ave very good family background beacuse even you malayalee,punjabi,or etc:,YOUR religion is still HINDHU… correct me if i’m worng..
yet,to remind you that HINDRAF or this PROTEST is actually not against the religion or any RACE.
is just an BLACK n WHITE concern to the ruling Gov to provide our INDIAN rights AS PER STATED IN THE AGREEMENT.
SO, you must feel proud as an indian and be embrassed that you’re not joining us when we actually fight for all including your family as well.
If possible,plzzzzz be thanked to them as their fighting for originating an HINDHU even YOU’re MALAYALEE,GUJARITY,PUNJABI,etc.
STOP being proud on yourself to be a MALAYALEE,GUJARITY,PUNJABI,etc: but you useless wastage doing nothing to the INDIAN..
I don’t mind you answer me..but remember,if you condemt HINDRAF and this PROTEST rather SHUT UP,you are actually spit on the air yet you will get nasty..
in tamil ” VAROO PETTHA,PILLAI KII, NANTAN APPAN ENDRU SOLLARANGE”.
SUBTITLE: “YOU CLAIM AS A FATHER,EVEN YOU KNOW THAT YOU NOT DID ANYTHNG FOR IT”
I think you understand above..
actually i mean this cozz,if we success in this protest which everyone has that 300% confident AND PROOF TO SAY THEY GOV WRONG.you and your family will enjoy the benefit as well,because you also an INDIAN wattt..
NOW!!! you recap ABOVE qoute.
“tepuk dada tanye selera”.it’s applied to all who scared to support this “PUNITHA POR”(PEACEFUL WAR)
Dear Indian
You are free to verify what I had said about Reid Commission in ANY histor textbook. Of course if you have doubts about the local ones, please refer to any book written by a foreigner on our history. The only one who is twisting our history is HINDRAF.
If you are really interested to know the truth, please go to any public national library or bookshop to get a foreign book on our history and don’t just say something just because the racists from HINDRAF say so. Since you are so keen to know the truth, I would encourage you to prove me wrong.
And if you interested, this is the link for wiki :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reid_Commission
So obviously something is wrong when HINDRAF says something while all historians say something else right ? I will leave it to the people to decide who is correct and who is lying.
As for our forefathers, what the British told them when they brought them is subject to intrepretation. Remember my grandparents too came from India and I don’t remember they telling me the British lied to them. But this is purely based on what I heard and I admit I can’t speak on behalf of others.
It is possible that the British did lie to our forefathers. But what the British told the Indians is immaterial.
I am not sure if you ever go through that idiotically and tortorously worded court papers that HINDRAF filed at the London court. If you read that, in essense it says the Indians were “FORCIBLY” moved to Malaya from India. Of course the document go on make highly illogical and fantastic accusations.
However, the truth is that the Indians were far better off migrating to Malaya than staying put in India. Of course, those days were tough, especially the working conditions and environment. But that was true for any economic migrants anywhere in the world,even today. Do you think the Indons and the Bangla workers have the same cozy house and car and amenities that you enjoy ?
If I am the judge, I would say thay since you guys are so unhappy about being shipped to Malaya, why don’t you guys just ask the Indian govt to take you back ?
Whatever the case remember, far from being abused, the British’s action had given you and me and our kids a better future than we would ever get if our forefathers had stayed put. And also remember that, our forefathers were no better than the Banga and the Indons who come to work in Malaysia today.
Killer, u dun need to listen to Opposition..just think urself…am not fighting in behalf of opposition here..
This shows how incapable others in the EC commision are that, probably none is eligible to do the work other than a single person!..Of course, like in the United States, u hv to take risks or plan ahead of time and nurture new leaders instead of bending the rule?..infact, it’s quite surprising for me to hear this from you…
That’s why probably that you’ve “great” leaders whom are irreplaceable.. like our MIC chief…unlike in first world countries…just bcoz u dun give them chance..
If you are in management, you don’t promote the successor at the most critical period but carry out what is called as succession planning and phasing in gradually. That is called common sense.
I know what the Opp. claims and also what was the govt’s reply. But it is obvious you did not read the other side of the story and that’s why you keep arguing without a basis.
Think logically, if this is manipulation then the govt could have raised the age of retirement to 90 or even 100 and put the EC boss on a permanent contract. If the EC is controlled by govt, wouldn’t the govt also put in someone equally pliable to them ?
Umanan, if you want to argue please get your facts and logic in order first.
BTW, this blog is NOT about politics and about Indians.
oops…the 3rd para’s last sentence should read…” If the EC is controlled by govt, wouldn’t the govt also put in someone equally pliable to them as the successor ?”
killer
,if u try to call ppl moron then you should declare yourself one.I am not anti giovt and at the same time i dont support hindraf.You want to talk about fact?Pls la…your fact is is gained through website links and you believe it as fact?
First of all what you want to prove over here?your language towards indian community is really untolerable.
Dont think you are hell of great person and who are you?what u do?if u think you great..tell us here..we willing to hear from you soon..
Thanks and may god bless you
Bro pablo
Can you be kind enough to tell me why should I call myself a moron ?
I am sorry if I hurt your tender feelings but I can’t recall when I hit out at the Indian community with obscene and vulgar words (as did the HINDRAF leaders and supportes against the police, MIC, UMNO and the govt leaders).
I am merely being frank about my views on the elements of the community who do the stupidest things in the name of religion and race.
Well I am not a great person at all and if I introduce myself most of you would never even heard of my name as I am not a politican, movie star/singer, radio DJ, community leader or even one of HINDRAF’s thuggish leaders.
I am just an ordinary Malaysian Indian from an estate wo happened to be fairly successful in life through my own efforts. Well I spend much of my free time on community work whic I had been doing for years.
I am sorry to disappoint you I am not a great “hero” like Utayakumar and his confused partners-in-crime.
As for my facts, I believe anyone who is familiar with internet will tell you that wiki is one of the more reliable website. Well, if you distruct the Internet, please go and find some good books and do your research.
Dear killer ,
I respect your reply 1st of all,
Yes,
apreciated on your analysis from national library and provide me some link to the web site.Again, it’s easy to say but hard to do like wat you did.Thanks.
Yet,i would like to touch a bit on ur statement that
“As for our forefathers, what the British told them when they brought them is subject to intrepretation. Remember my grandparents too came from India and I don’t remember they telling me the British lied to them”.
is this true ???
if yes.explain how far is ur finding.is that only from verbal claim from ur granparents or by the website updates as above.
Bro,again, do you think the govt who ruled us for 5o years by having some dummy indian leaders(quess who i mean)don’t know how to delete the information and blocked it from it to be surfed..
come on lah.we know that CNN,AL JAZEERA,MAKKAL TV,and Some other foreign media a giving feedback/pressure to this govt but do we get the info.
Even website has been blocked.
why they doing so if they ave all the PROOF AND HISTORICAL DATA as my friend how you claimed.
can’t you even think logical abt that.ok ok ok .i admit that maybe british govt had lied to our forefather’s because they need manpower at that time to make profit.yes they could selfish..
but,
now the ISSUE is about the agreement between 3 race rep and the BRITISH GOVT. if they just want to be here temporarily do you think they will hesitate to kick us back to india because we are not an originater here…
if also we are not an originater yet we just came before like bangla or indon why all the while for 50years MALAYSIA is called a multi race country..this not been declare after bangla or indon came to malaysia.It’s happen by the time MERDEKA and signed by 3 leader’s rep from 3 race.again,3 leader’s rep from 3 race.ok.
to answer all our discussion over here and other place.let all of us include me(who holding HINDRAF HAND) handover this matter to the govt who bring us here.
is that sound better.because i always believe that when some body is in right track they wont give up/step backward even if they been charged or been torture.you know why that is TRUTH.
Yet,
we’re not simply forward our claim to the govt because we/they do really aware to whom we are actually mess wit.And this not a story creation from the empty discussion from “MAMAK SHOP” or “RESTAURANT”.every thing need to ave BLACK n WHITE.
yes,
every indian shld believe that.
HINDRAF is not a racist.
any value statement to make it strong?.
in what ground of reason made you to say that..
are we(HINDRAF) against to MALAY/MUSLIM’S?
is there any forum to elimanate muslim’s been conducted or it is been recorded?
are we(HINDRAF) against to CHINESE,CHRIST,PUNJABE,GUJARITY or etc.?
IF YES,
proof it..
IF NO ?
SHUT UP AND DON’T TRY TO PHYSCO/BULLSHITTING ANYONE WIT UR UNFACTFUL STATEMENT.
IF U DON’T WANT TO JOIN THEN IT’S OK..NO ONE FORCING YOU..AM I RITE..
BUT I’m not going to hate you.Because there is THOUSAND OF THEM LIKE U OUTSIDE THERE WHO REALLY NOT UNDERSTAND/SCARED to “FIGHT FOR RIGHTS”
TO ALL READER’S
PLS COMMENT ME…… VALGE HINDHU SAMUTHAYAM..
SINGHAM MAA PORANTHA SINGHAM MAA THAN SAGANUM”
Naam ADIMEI ILLAI MY FRIEND’s…
Killer, anyway..no point debating with someone who is a “slave” in being a “yes” with any of govt’s move. Of course ppl have to come out with some strong rationale to make retirement age changes…and they r not stupids to change to 100 or 1000! This is the pre-plan thing that ppl in power shd do..highlight years ahead of forthcoming contraints/problems and backup ppl as necessary…nt 6 months beforehand & do re-active changes then and yet get big claps from someone like u. I didn’t even mentioned EC chief is going to favour any party with the extension but u’ve an inferior feeling with regards to that..even when ppl generally speaks abt the process being wrong..
At least, that clarifies what u r…
Oh ya..this blog is abt Indians, then kindly don’t reply to any other posts unrelated to Indians right from the start..let ppl learn from you then..
Actually, u r bringing in the political sentiments inside urself even when ppl r not anti-govt/pro-opposition..pre-maturely you just decide it urself…
Anyway, good luck to you…
Dear Killer,
Come on … can you tell me which place or housing that is being unsold? Most of the shopping malls are being crowd by bumis rather than non-bumis…so… it’s shows the govt is helping them for each penny that they spend. This year all the Mat rempit will be givin rm2000 and a bike to sell cow meat…what is this…???can the gov give the same to non-bumi to sell chiken or pork???? can you ans this please?
Killer
About you comments on teh following below:-
“Oh yeah, about temple demolition in india…HINDRAF supporters read carefully…”
You have paste few links and i think some of the links are more than 4 years old…what is the the point you are trying to proof. We are talking temple that is being demolish now. Is there any temple being demolish in INDIA? if you dare can you go and suggest the india Gov to demolish the temples… i guess your head will be taken out 1st by the indians in India. So please stop compare with the other nations and start to talk about what has happen here!!!
Dear Indian
I am sorry to inform you but my grandparents are not bloggers like Poobalan. As such I can’t direct you to their website. In fact they had passed away long before the word blogging came into picture.
Anyway, I tell you what they told me. According to them the British came to their villages and promised them good jobs in rubber plantations with good salary. Of course many of these people have no idea what this meant but grapped the chance as they were so improvished in South India.
But the original batch of people who came here was shocked by the working conditions in the estates which were deep inside jungles. They were bothered by malaria and othe tropical diseases and had to work hard.
But my grandparents were hardworking people and were happy enough to get a chance to better their future. But things improved within 1 generation and by the time my parents were born, things were a lot better with infrastructure like roads and schools were built.
That within 3 generations you and me living in urban areas instead of some godforsaken jungle shows the hardwork done by our forefathers, MIC and the government in developing the country.
Indian
As for the websites from being blocked this is indeed news for me. I don’t have a problem accessing to the BBC/Al-jazeera and other sites.
Anyway, please wake up to the facts that these organisations are just to sell news and have zero interest in our wellbeing.
Bro, don’t call Samy / MIC as dummy leaders. I said it before and I say again, the contribution of Samy / MIC are indeed great and without them I very much if we enjoy the benefits that we have now. It is a big lie to say the MIC / Samy has done nothing.
Also remember, Samy is no dictator but voted by Indians to be the MIC president and not appointed by UMNO/govt.
And talking about Reid Committe I had already challenged anyone here or HINDRAF to show me any independent historian who agreed with HINDRAF’s version. If you can they you can continue to debate with me on this subject, otherwise please admit that HINDRAF had fooled the Indians and the world.
I saw your quote below and I have to say it is really funny…
SINGHAM MAA PORANTHA SINGHAM MAA THAN SAGANUM”
Please lah, keep off this talk of singham, pulee, karadee..
There only singhams you will find in Malaysia are in the zoos….
BTW I can’t quite understand who is HINDRAF’s inspiration, Gandhi or Bentong Kali..
Hmmm….
Mr Killer,
just to tell u that if u r not happy that now, after hindraf rally, we, indians are united, then please get lost. if u are not happy that the govt started to help indians now ( thanks to hindraf again) then please get lost
Hi, agreed with the “singham” quotes, sounds too ambiguous..let’s talk abt reality.
If the Hindraf members are wrong with their requests, I reckon direct approach wd be to charge them for falsification of data, and that wd bail the govt./MIC out from this difficult position…atleast Indians wd be more clearer for what cause they r supporting…it’s only emotions that wd run high when things are not done with correct process…ie. ISA.
I suggest the govt. to pursue this to prove their innocence, atleast logical Indians wd follow the right path..
Killer,
how bout the 30% share of any non-bumis biz to be given to malays? is that fair? how bout our indian students who scores straight As n still yet to get sit in our govt university? is that fair? and more..if u dont feel anything when the temples were demolished(no matter built legally or illegally) if u really dont feel anything, then i dont think so u r an indian, so to me i feel its better to talk to a indian reared cows than talking n replying to ungrateful indians like u , killer