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to boycott or not, what say you

January 18th, 2008
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we can see both sides arguments:

Boycott
– retaliation against the temple committee for backstabbing the community on 25 November by calling the police
– Boycott batu caves does not mean boycott Thaipusam or Lord Muruga
– Going to Batu Caves will be misused by MIC as sign of support for Samy Vellu and MIC
– as a support for Hindraf ISA detainees
– show support to other temples who may be in danger of demolition

No to Boycott
– don’t politicise religion
– don’t show anger against Batu Caves or Thaipusam
– it is disrespect/sin against religion (not sure how true this is)
– use other methods to show displeasure towards temple committee/Samy vellu/MIC
– even Hindraf leaders did prayer at Batu Caves after 25/11
– go there, but don’t spend money as a show of support

Well, there can be other reasons for both parties, so let’s make it short:

Please cast your vote at http://www.poobalan.com/blog

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batu caves improvements for thaipusam

January 7th, 2008
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Batu Caves gears up for Thaipusam

By : Veena Babulal

KUALA LUMPUR: More than 1.5 million people are expected to converge on the Batu Caves temple here for the Thaipusam celebration.

With two weeks to go before the festival on Jan 23, preparations are in full swing to ensure better crowd control and facilities.

Among others, the temple committee will be spending about RM20,000 a day during the festival to treat the "prayer milk" which coagulates in the drain.

There are also 25 new permanent toilets near the Sri Venkatajalapathi temple.

These will complement the 80 toilets at the Sri Sanes-warar Temple located 500 metres away.

The temple committee has also come up with a better rubbish collection system.

Thirty cleaners will be hired on two-hour shifts throughout the five-day festival period. The rubbish will be placed in three stationary compactors which are able to crush up to 24,000kg of rubbish an hour.

The crushed waste will then be stored at a transfer station where it would remain until it is sent to the landfill.

The temple committee is also seeking the help of the Selayang Municipal Council to keep the beggars away from the 6.5ha temple complex during the festival.

"We have so many things to deal with to ensure that the celebration proceeds smoothly.

"Text messages calling for a boycott of the celebration is the last thing on our minds," said Sri Maha Mariamman temple chairman Datuk R. Nadarajah.

He was referring to text messages that have been circulating urging Hindus to boycott the Thaipusam celebration at Batu Caves.

The text messages claimed that the temple committee had allowed the police to enter the temple complex during the Hindu Rights Action Force (Hindraf) rally in November to disperse the supporters who had gathered there.

"This is propaganda against Hinduism. No one from any religion will call for a boycott against a temple or any religious place," Nadarajah said.

"You do not have to support me or contribute to the temple but don't boycott the temple.

"Don't worry or panic and spread rumours. There will be two FRU (Federal Reserve Unit) trucks as usual and the Selangor police force will be here on Jan 23 to handle the crowd," he said.

Yesterday, the temple committee started registering traders who would be setting up shop during the festival. By noon, some 260 of the 345 lots had been snapped up.

A successful applicant, Ka-thirasan Kannusamy, said he had faith that it would be business as usual during the festival.

"I've also received the text message but I consider it a rumour.

"In my six years of trading in textiles during the Thaipusam celebrations here, the crowd has never gone down and it's more likely to increase this year," said the 56-year-old.

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thaipusam at batu caves minus indians?

January 6th, 2008
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Hmmm..if many indians don't go to batu caves in two weeks time, pity all the foreign tourists! Perhaps the organisers can hire the many foreign workers and dark-skinned malaysians to provide cover, just in case.

businessmen may also think about setting up their stalls in other locations as a backup plan since even if the crowd is there, but don't spend much, will affect their business. Other locations like Penang, JB, Ipoh, Kuala Selangor, Teluk Intan, Port Klang, Klang etc will surely see bigger crowd this year.
 
 
Boycotting Batu Caves for Thaipusam?
K Kabilan | Jan 5, 08 4:23pm

A movement is fast gaining momentum on the ground to canvass support among the Indian community to boycott the Batu Caves temple for the Thaipusam festival which falls in Jan 23.

Short message services (SMSes) and emails are being circulated asking people not to fulfill their spiritual vows in Batu Caves following the temple committee’s role in allowing the police to violently disperse a gathered crowd in the early hours of Nov 25.

So far no one has claimed leadership or responsibility for the boycott call but the feedback from the ground seemed to indicate that it is a random act of protest propagated by unknown individuals.

“As mark of respect for all fellow brothers and sisters who were part of the Nov 25 rally, we will fulfill all our spiritual vows at other temples in Malaysia except Batu Caves during Thaipusam,” said one such SMS making its rounds in recent weeks. Other SMSes with similar messages have also been in circulation lately.

The SMSes refer to the violent dispersal by police of a large crowd who had gathered peacefully at the compound of the Batu Caves temple in the early hours of that day last year.

The crowd had arrived there prior to participating in the much-talked about Hindu Rights Action Force (Hindraf) organised rally in Kuala Lumpur later that morning.

The police have said that they had acted only after they were called in by the Batu Caves temple management committee, headed by R Nadarajah.

Nadarajah (photo) had defended the temple’s actions by saying that the crowd had trespassed into the temple after closing hours and in the process had caused severe damages to the temple’s properties.

Thaipusam is one of the most important festivals for the Hindus. It is dedicated to Lord Muruga and celebrates the victory of good over evil. In Malaysia, Batu Caves has been the centre of the celebration for years, attracting about a million visitors on that day every year.

An angry community

One annual Batu Caves visitor, S Sivalingam from Pasir Penampang in Selangor told Malaysiakini that the calls for the boycott was likely to be heeded in his area.

“Every year bus loads of devotees from this place and the surrounding estates will make the pilgrimage to Batu Caves. This year lots of people are asking us not to go after what the temple has done to the people who were there on Nov 25,” he said.

He said that calls for the boycott has come not just via the SMSes, but also from local community leaders and from fellow residents themselves.

“They talk openly about Hindraf and how Nadarajah and his committee members have failed to support the fight for Indian rights,” he added.

He admitted the local Indian population in his area and the surrounding areas – which have long been strong BN supporters – were angry with the manner Hindraf supporters and protesters were treated in both Batu Caves and Kuala Lumpur city centre on Nov 25.

“The feeling is that our political parties have failed us. Our temples have failed too. So why must we continue giving our support to them,” asked Sivalingam, a 43-year-old businessman.

Bloggers too have joined along in asking the people to boycott Batu Caves this year.

“Perhaps we should teach them (the Batu Caves committee) by going to Penang and Malacca for Thaipusam. Let them lose their revenue,” wrote a blogger.

“Public solidarity is paramount in this symbolic effort to achieve the objectives and show that it is not easily quelled. Let's hit them where it naturally hurts most – $$$,” wrote another blogger.

Hindraf denies involvement

A priest in a small temple in Kapar K Munian said that he was worried that devotees from his temple would take “their fight against the wrong party”.

“The anger should not be focussed at the deity in the temple. It is after all Lord Muruga’s day. We go there to pray to him. If the anger is against the temple committee, find some other way to show it. Let’s not ask people not to go to Batu Caves to pray,” he pleaded.

Hindraf coordinator RS Thanenthiran (photo), when contacted, denied that his organisation was the mover behind the call for the boycott.

“How can we ask people not to pray. Of course we at Hindraf are angry with the Batu Caves temple committee, but that doesn’t mean we can ask people to boycott Lord Muruga,” he said.

“It is a temple and we will not stop people from praying there. But if it is their choice to boycott, we can’t do anything about that,” he added.

Batu Caves temple officials when contacted said that they are aware of the calls to boycott the temple for Thaipusam.

“But we are not worried about this. We are sure the devotees will continue to come here to worship,” said an official.

Protest the right way

Similar strong sentiment was espoused by MIC vice president S Veerasingam, who was confident that devotees will not boycott Batu Caves for Thaipusam.

“As usual thousands will turn up at Batu Caves and other places to fulfill their vows. Do not bring negative thoughts into religious festivals,” he told Malaysiakini.

A long time kavadi-bearer at Batu Caves, P Batu Malai said that he would surely fulfill his vows by carrying a kavadi this year too at Batu Caves, although he was angry with the manner the temple committee handled the crowd on Nov 25.

“I was in the crowd and I know how the temple committee worked hand in hand with the police in getting us out of the temple compound,” he claimed.

“But that will not stop me from going there for Thaipusam. However I will not pay a single sen to the temple for any of its projects and charity drives. Neither will I be standing around to hear MIC president S Samy Vellu’s annual speech for Thaipusam at Batu Caves,” he added.

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what happened at the temple committee meeting with selangor MB

January 6th, 2008
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20 million ringgit? Hmmm…always follow the money trail. Welcome to Malaysian Hind Council!
 
6 months…long enough to make promises and later… Well, if MHS can be forgotten within days, I can only wonder what will happen to the proposals and memorandums.
 
Anyway, glad to hear the state govt have approved 146 temples. In how many years ah?
 
I'm also curious that churches nowadays seem to exist in shophouses. Are they the churches he mentioned? No one will realise that the churches in building exists since they are devoid of any external architectural designs or identity. Perhaps Hindu temples should start to relocate into shoplots!
 
As usual the NST writes a differing view as compared to MK. You can also read other related articles at:
 
 
Committee to deal with temple issues set up

RAWANG: Representatives of some 700 Hindu temples in Selangor have agreed to form a committee among themselves to deal directly with the state government on erecting, demolishing and relocating temples.

They also agreed with Selangor Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Dr Mohd Khir Toyo's proposal to have the self-regulatory committee ready within six months. The decision was made at an hour-long dialogue session between Dr Khir and the representatives, facilitated by the newly set up Malaysian Hindu Council.

At a press conference after the meeting, Dr Khir said state exco member Kamala Ganapathy would assist the proposed committee. "The committee must come up with regulations and requirements in terms of qualifications of priests, locations of the temples and the funds needed and so on," he said. The menteri besar said a temple to be built must comply with the regulations set by the committee and, the committee, after agreeing that the temple has met the requirements, will meet the state government's committee for approval.

While waiting six months for the committee to be set up, Dr Khir said the state would avoid taking action against temples built without approval. However, relocation exercises would proceed for the temples that had agreed to be relocated.  Dr Khir said action had also been taken against mosques, surau and Chinese temples that were built without permission. "The only place of worship we have not encountered any problem with is the Christian churches. They always abide by all regulations."

At yesterday's dialogue, Malay- sian Hindu Council chairman Datuk R. Nadarajah also submitted to Dr Khir a proposal for the setting up of a Malaysian Indian Cultural Centre in Batu Caves. This is following an announcement by Dr Khir that there was a RM20 million state allocation for the purpose of building a cultural centre for the Indian community.

 
 
 

S'gor halts temple demolitions for six months

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/76712
Syed Jaymal Zahiid | Jan 5, 08 12:49pm

The Selangor state government has announced a six-month moratorium on the demolition of Hindu temples in the state.

The six-month duration is to allow the temples themselves to establish a self-regulatory committee to deal directly with the state government on erecting, demolishing and relocating temples.

This was announced by Mentri Besar Dr Mohamad Khir Toyo after an hour long meeting with representatives of some 700 Hindu temples in the state in Rawang yesterday evening.

The meeting was facilitated by the newly set up Malaysian Hindu Council, headed by the Jalan Bandar Maha Mariamman temple and Batu Caves temple president R Nadarajah.

"The committee must come up with regulations and requirements in terms of qualifications of priests, locations of the temples and the funds needed and so on," Khir said.

He also added that a newly build temple must comply with the regulations set by the committee and, the committee, after agreeing that the temple has met the requirements, will meet the state government for approval.

"We don't want temples being built without approval. Suggestions from this committee will be discussed at the executive council level before approval (for building new temples) is given," he added.

He said that MIC's state exco member Kamala Ganapathy would assist the proposed committee.

Matter of legality

He also said that while waiting six months for the committee to be set up, the state would avoid taking action against temples built without approval.

However, relocation exercises would proceed for the temples that had agreed to be relocated, he added.

"We want everybody to work together in this matter. Once this regulatory body is put into frame, it will be easier for us to move on to the next step," Khir said.

The dialogue session set up between Khir and the temple representatives, held at the Perangsang Templer Golf Club in the outskirts of the city, was to discuss the problems of the series of temple demolitions that have occurred in Selangor throughout last year.

The Indian community have accused Khir's government of intolerable ruthlessness when it comes to dealing with the temple issue.

Khir and his government however pointed out that the temple issue was just a matter of "legality", saying that the temples that have been demolished are those that were not built according to law.

"We must not look at this (temple demolition) from a prejudicial and cynical perspective. It is not race or religious bias that made us act on the temples, but a legal one," stressed the chief minister in his speech earlier.

'I have always been fair'

He said that in Selangor, besides Hindu temples, other religious edifices like the Muslim's surau, the Chinese' tokong have all faced state government action because they were built not in accordance to regulations.

"The only religious building that the state government have not taken action against are churches. Why? Because they were built in accordance with the law set by the state and the federal government," he noted.

According to the chief minister, his government has always been fair to all races in the state.

To counter allegations that his administration practices religious bias, Khir said the accusers should look at the facts.

"In Selangor, the state government have approved the construction of 146 Hindu temples. If I practice religious bias, why are there 146 Hindu temples in Selangor?" he said.

In support of his claim, he added that his administration have allocated RM20 million for the construction of a Hindu Cultural Centre, which will be located at Batu Caves.

"I want people to understand the culture of the Indian Malaysians here so that all that the racial unity that our forefathers have strived to build will be safeguarded by future generations," he said.

MIC's council of temples

Following the meeting the temple representatives and the state government in Selangor, another such meeting would be held in Kuala Lumpur on Jan 13 involving all temple representatives from the city.

This was announced by MIC president S Samy Vellu today. He would be chairing the KL meeting. Many cases of temple demolitions are confined to Kuala Lumpur and Selangor.

According to Bernama today, Samy Vellu said that without political support, the fate of temples, especially those built illegally would be in limbo.

He also said that MIC would be forming a council of Hindu temples in every state to protect the temples and resolve their problems through the state governments.

"The MIC considers the demolition of temples as a very serious political matter and it requires consultations from various parties," he said in a statement.

As such, the council would be tasked with several functions, among others, to safeguard temples and to protect the integrity of the Hindu religion; to register temples which comply with the requirements; and to obtain permanent and suitable alternative sites for temples.

Samy Vellu said that if a temple was found to have been built on private or government land, the council would seek an alternative and suitable site for it.

"The council will also ascertain that the plans for all the temples have been submitted to the local authorities to prevent future problems. The council will get the approval for the plans once they have been submitted," he said.

However, it would not interfere in the running of the temple or its administration, he added.
 
 
 
 

Temple reps: Meeting a political ploy

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/76718
Khairil Zhafri | Jan 5, 08 3:27pm

Representative from about 700 Hindu temples in Selangor met in a close-door dialogue with Menteri Besar Dr Mohd Khir Toyo yesterday to discuss problems faced by the temples.

The meeting was facilitated by the Malaysian Hindu Council (MHC), a newly-formed umbrella body that claims to represent Hindu temples and Hindu-based organisations in Malaysia.

The purpose of the meeting was to allow the temple representative to discuss matters pertaining to temple demolition, renovation and building of new temples in the state with Khir.

After the dialogue, Malaysiakini asked temple representatives for their comments on the dialogue.

One temple committee member who declined to be named said the menteri besar didn't answer most of the issues raised by the Hindu temples. Instead he is claimed to have chimed in with projects the Barisan Nasional government had done for the Hindu community.

"He didn't say much, but just (speaking to) gain support for BN in the election," he said.

However, the representative from a temple in Klang welcomed the financial allocation for Hindu temples as promised by Khir as it was what they are duly entitled to.

In his speech, Khir had asked the audience whether they agree to set up a body to self-regulate Hindu temples in Selangor. There were no response from the audience at first.

Khir then reiterate his question for the second time asking "agree or not?". Only then majority of the audience said "agree" and gave an applause.

Problems with the new body

However, another temple representative approached by Malaysiakini at the event told that he did not understand why the state government wanted to set up a new regulatory body for Hindu temples.

"In his speech, he (Khir) said the state government already have a committee to take care the Hindu matters. So why (need to set up) a new committee?" asked the temple representative from Banting.

The temple representative was referring to the committee for non-Muslim places of worship in the Selangor government, whose members include non-Muslim state executive councilors.

He also said the setting up a new regulatory body will only cause more problems to Hindu temples as there would be overlapping regulations by the government and the body.

Another temple representative said that he did not see any concrete outcome from the dialogue.

When asked to comment on the memorandum submitted to the Selangor government, he said, "we support the memorandum but if the government is not doing anything about it, (there is) no use (to send any memorandum)," he added.

Demanding government assistance

At the event, a memorandum was submitted to the state government by Malaysian Hindu Council on behalf of Hindu temples in the state:

In the 13-paged memorandum, MHC proposed, among others, that:

– all Hindu temples to be legalised and state government draw up a guideline on legality of Hindu temples upon consultation with Hindu bodies

– certain procedures should be followed in the event of demolition and removal of temples

– government to give a waiver for utilities like electricity, water, sewerage, quit rent and and also assessment

– Hindus should be given the liberty to build a temple to their own specifications

– registration of temple committees with the Registrar of Societies should be made easier

The event was held at Perangsang Templer Golf Club in Rawang. It was originally planned to be held at Batu Caves but later changed to the golf club to accommodate the big number of attendees.

Objections to MHC and Nadarajah

The event started at 5.00pm with speech by MHC chairperson R Nadarajah followed by Khir's speech. Members of the press was asked to leave the venue to allow Khir and temple representatives to talk in private.

During the dialogue, Khir answered the issues raised by temples representatives for about one and a half hour. State exco A Kamala Ganapathy took over from Khir when he left the hall for a press conference with Nadarajah.

The meeting between Hindu temple representatives and Selangor mentri besar had received objection by a group of Indian NGOs earlier. The NGOs questioned the credibility of MHC and Nadarajah to handle the meeting.

Last year, Selangor government took action to demolish all places of worship claimed to be illegally built . The matter was at its height when a 100-year-old temple in Rimba Jaya demolished by the local authority with use of violence and force.

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Rest in Peace Hindu Sangam

January 5th, 2008
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With the creation of the Malaysian Hindu Council, fully supported by (and maybe part of) MIC, MIC is clearly seen as getting rid of MHS. May you rest in peace, Malaysian  Hindu Sangam.
 
MHS is asking Selangor MB why not meeting with them, but dare they ask MIC why not inviting them? Perhaps MIC is upset that a coalition has been set up that sidesteps them?
 
Talking about unity, why is MIC not practising what it preaches? Even today afternoon, MIC Information chief Dato Saravanan talked about UNITY!
 
Anyway, if nothing dramatic happens, like arm-twisting by certain people, MHS will soon be a thing of the past, one more limp NGO.
 
Read other articles about the the issue at:
 
 
 
 

 

Hindu Sangam to Khir: What about us?

http://www.malaysiakini.com/news/76722
Jan 5, 08 5:00pm

The Malaysia Hindu Sangam (MHS) is the rightful body for the Selangor state government to consult in regards to Hindu temples, said its deputy president Thiagaraja Ratnasamy today.

Thiagaraja was responding to news reports that Selangor Menteri Besar Dr Mohd Khir Toyo had a meeting “700 temple representatives” to discuss the controversial state demolition of temples.

Formed in 1965, MHS is the biggest Hindu temple umbrella group in the country and had a track record of handling such issues, said Thiagaraja.

This includes liaising with the late K Sivalingam who was a Selangor state exco member in charge of non-Muslim affairs and drawing guidelines for Kuala Lumpur City Hall regarding demolition of temples.

“Before the Menteri Besar implements any guidelines in Selangor, he must first have an actual and meaningful dialogue with the actual representatives of temples.

“With 1,802 temples nationwide as members of the MHS, it would appear that we are best placed to assist the state government in this,” said Thiagaraja in a statement today.

Politically motivated?

MHS’ role as an umbrella body for Hindu organisations looks shaken with the establishment of the Malaysian Hindu Council (MHC) and its influence on Hindu temple affairs.

MHC is headed by Jalan Bandar Maha Mariamman temple and Batu Caves temple president R Nadarajah. Nadarajah is a notable businessman who is also known for his close links with MIC president S Samy Vellu.

The meeting with the temple representatives was facilitated by the MHC yesterday, where Khir announced that the state government would not demolish any Hindu temples over the next six months.

During that time frame, the temple committees within Selangor have to form a self-regulatory body to deal directly with the state government on erecting, demolishing and relocating temples.

Observers note that the move by MHS and Khir to set up the committee was likely to drum up support for the Barisan Nasional in the upcoming general election.
 
MIC to set up council of Hindu temples

BERNAMA

 
source

KUALA LUMPUR, Sat.:

The MIC will set up a Council of Hindu Temples in every state to protect the temples and resolve their problems through the state governments, MIC president Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu said today. 

The formation of the council comes just weeks after Prime Minister Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi instructed Samy Vellu to list the number of temples in the country and identify their problems.

Samy Vellu, who is Works Minister, said the council would be chaired by the state executive councillors from the MIC or the state party chiefs. “The MIC considers the demolition of temples as a very serious political matter and it requires consultations from various parties,” he said in a statement.

As such, the council would be tasked with several functions, among others, to safeguard temples and to protect the integrity of the Hindu religion; to register temples which comply with the requirements; and to obtain permanent and suitable alternative sites for temples. Samy Vellu said that if a temple was found to have been built on private or government land, the council would seek an alternative and suitable site for it.  “The council will also ascertain that the plans for all the temples have been submitted to the local authorities to prevent future problems. The council will get the approval for the plans once they have been submitted,” he said.

However, it would not interfere in the running of the temple or its administration, he added. The council, he said, would list the number of temples in a locality and compile the problems faced by these temples.

The first meeting on the formation of the council was held in Perak last Dec 27, attended by 750 temple heads and chaired by Samy Vellu.  He said the Selangor MIC organised another meeting yesterday which was attended by Selangor Menteri Besar Datuk Seri Dr Khir Toyo and more than 1,000 temple heads. “I will chair another meeting of temple heads from the Federal Territory on Jan 13,” he said, adding that many cases of temple demolitions are confined to Kuala Lumpur. Samy Vellu said that without political support, the fate of temples, especially those built illegally would be in limbo.

 

THE STAR: MIC to set up council for temples

source

PETALING JAYA: A Council of Hindu Temples will be set up in every state by the MIC to protect and resolve problems through the state governments.  In a statement Saturday, MIC president Datuk Seri S. Samy Vellu said the council would be chaired by state executive councillors from the party or state MIC chiefs.   "The MIC considers the demolition of temples as a very serious political matter and it requires consultation with various parties," he said.  

He said the council would be given several duties including safeguarding temples, protecting the integrity of Hinduism, registering temples that comply with the requirements and obtaining permanent and suitable alternative sites for temples.   He added that if a temple is found to be built on private or government land, the Council would seek an alternative suitable land for the temple concerned.  

"The Council will also ascertain if the plans for all the temples have been submitted to the local authorities to prevent future problems. The Council will get the approval for the plans once it has been submitted," he said.  

Samy added the Council would not interfere in the running and administration of the temple. Nor would it control or take over the temple committee's tasks.   It would, however, list the number of temples in a locality and compile problems they faced, he said.  

The next meeting of temple heads from the Federal Territory is scheduled for Jan 13.

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